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Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem #4607314
12/18/17 02:56 PM
12/18/17 02:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,736
New York
pbm Offline OP
pbm  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,736
New York
I have a lot of noise (slamming) from my heating system when the zone valves close....it's definitely 'water hammer'. I had a plumber come in last year and replace all the zone valves (Honeywell) to no avail....he also installed one of these but it doesn't seem to help.....(it may even be worse)....
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-3196-1-3-4-Bypass-Valve-4424000-p

Some guys on an online HVAC forum say that Honeywell ZV's are prone to this because they close fast.

Does anybody think I would have better luck using Taco's or some other brand?

PS: The valves are installed correctly (not backwards) as I know that installing them backwards can cause this issue.
My entire system was replaced in 2009 so the ZVs I replaced were only 7 years old. Thoughts?


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: pbm] #4607346
12/18/17 03:23 PM
12/18/17 03:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 93
Spokane, WA
Oscar_Ruitt Offline
Oscar_Ruitt  Offline
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 93
Spokane, WA
Anything you can do to purge air from the system could help, but I have not seen this particular problem. I work on hydronic heating and cooling water flows and one of the most common problems I find is air in the system. Is there a valve on a high point to purge air out when the pump is off?


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Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: pbm] #4607361
12/18/17 03:41 PM
12/18/17 03:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
knerml Offline
knerml  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
Look into installing hammer arrestors in your lines.


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Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: knerml] #4607471
12/18/17 05:50 PM
12/18/17 05:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,736
New York
pbm Offline OP
pbm  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,736
New York
Originally Posted By: knerml
Look into installing hammer arrestors in your lines.


Oscar: Thanks, I had a new expansion tank, scoop and several air bleeders installed so I don't think air is the problem.

knerml: Thanks....So the Taco Bypass valve wouldn't do much?


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: pbm] #4607495
12/18/17 06:18 PM
12/18/17 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Air in the line can be the solution, not the problem. Quite often there are standpipes above the water line in various locations throughout a building. The idea is that the air remains up top and cushions the surging water. Preventing water-hammer.

When I have trouble with water hammer in my home, I simply shut off the water main, and use my shop vac to pull the water out of the house, by going around and opening shower valves and sink valves. I start at the farthest valve and work my way back.

http://autodata-engineer.blogspot.com/2011/03/water-hammer-and-its-controldevices.html



Note: A water hammer device needs to be upstream of the valve in question.

Last edited by Cujet; 12/18/17 06:20 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: Cujet] #4607548
12/18/17 07:20 PM
12/18/17 07:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,008
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,008
OH
In a hydronic system, the expansion tank allows for this.
There should be zero air in the lines or convectors.
With no air, there would be no hammer.
I suspect the OP does have some entrapped air and a judicious bleeding will get rid of it along with the hammer.


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Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: pbm] #4607670
12/18/17 09:24 PM
12/18/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 797
Youngstown, NY
Subdued Offline
Subdued  Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 797
Youngstown, NY
low system pressure can be a cause as well, is your feed water pressure regulator working properly?

Mine was stuck closed, and a trifecta of that, a failed exp tank, and a failed relief valve caused my system pressure to regularly drop to 0. Then the hammering would start.


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Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: pbm] #4607861
12/19/17 06:33 AM
12/19/17 06:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Rick in PA Offline
Rick in PA  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,203
Southeastern, PA
Not a guru, but one thing I learned was air dissolves in water. In a standpipe or tank, where there is no diaphragm between the water and the air, the air will dissolve into the water over time, and the standpipe or tank will become filled solid with water.

This happened at our old house where we had a well system. The diaphragm in the accumulator tank failed, the trapped air dissolved into the water and the accumulator tank became water bound. The system would short cycle because there was no air cushion in the tank.

Water hammer arrestors work the same way. They have a diaphragm to separate the water from the gas charge. The failure mode is the diaphragm fails and the water hammer arrestor becomes water bound.


A wise man told me:
"Heat is your friend." and "Any oil is better than no oil."
Re: Any heating system guru's? water hammer problem [Re: Rick in PA] #4608554
12/19/17 06:55 PM
12/19/17 06:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,008
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,008
OH
Also, the air will boil out of fresh system water over time, so bleeding does need to be done repeatedly over a period of days.
Once the system is properly filled to something above recommended static pressure, to allow for the bleeding off of the inevitable air, there should be no possibility of hammer since there is only constant pressure at every point in what is a closed system.


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