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Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment #4606952
12/18/17 07:24 AM
12/18/17 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
BigJohn Offline OP
BigJohn  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
Three years now I have had my Ram Eco-Diesel here in Colorado and only twice have I run into fuel gelling issues but the temps were south of -20 degrees F. In three years, I have never utilized a fuel treatment of any kind. My truck sits outside, as the motorcycles get the garage. I do have a block heater, and always "plug in" on cold nights.

This weekend we are supposed to have temps dipping to the negative 10 mark or lower and I thought I might add some treatment, but I have some questions.

1. If you are in a cold climate, do you always use a fuel treatment all winter, or only when the forecast is showing very frigid temps?

2. Is there a particular brand of treatment that is superior and even multi-use, in the fact that it also cleans up the injectors, etc.?

3. Seems I have read that some drivers use certain treatments that are great for pre-2007 diesels, but the newer engines shouldn't use. Is there anything to this claim?

4. Having a modern V-6 turbo diesel that has a DEF system.... is that an important consideration in this decision?


Thanks for the help!


'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Delo 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40
'05 KTM 950 ADV-S, RT4 15w40
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4606955
12/18/17 07:30 AM
12/18/17 07:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 198
Michigan
64bawagon Offline
64bawagon  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 198
Michigan
I have run Power service white bottle for years. Its easy to find and has benefits beyond being anti gel. As I understand, its compatible with post 07 trucks. You might double check their website to be sure. Almost equally as important is where you buy your fuel, a trusted source that sells a large volume is important.


05 Duramax Chevy(SOLD), 64 Chevy wagon, 10 Jeep Wrangler, 17 Equinox (rental), 18 Silverado 1/2 ton
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4606956
12/18/17 07:33 AM
12/18/17 07:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
BigJohn Offline OP
BigJohn  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
Just found this.....

"For the first time in company history, Cummins has officially endorsed a fuel additive, recommending two Power Service products, Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost and Diesel Fuel Supplement + Cetane Boost."

http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/fuel...-additives.aspx


'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Delo 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40
'05 KTM 950 ADV-S, RT4 15w40
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4606957
12/18/17 07:33 AM
12/18/17 07:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,922
NC
BigD1 Offline
BigD1  Offline
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,922
NC
When I drove long haul, Howes never failed me. Other trucks would shut down overnight because their fuel gelled, but mine never did.


http://www.howeslube.com/dieseltreat.php


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607019
12/18/17 09:15 AM
12/18/17 09:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,230
Europe
SonofJoe Online content
SonofJoe  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,230
Europe
For my sins, back in the 80's, I was paid to try and flog Diesel Wax Crystal Modifiers to anyone who was daft enough to want to buy them!

These have been almost universally used throughout Europe since the 70's. All diesel (be it sold in Winter or Summer) & heating gasoil contains around 100-300 ppm of additive (it's usually Ethylene Vinyl Acetate copolymer) to reduce the fuel's Cold Filter Plugging Point (CFPP)

Things may have changed in the intervening years but my recollection is that the US never really liked these additives and resisted their mass adoption. My memory's a bit hazy but I sort of recall that the two reasons commonly cited for this were that American truckers seldom turn their engine's off (so the fuel's always warm) and US gasoline-orientated oil refineries (unlike European ones) have no economic incentive to increase diesel yield.

Adding WCM's to US fuel should work fine. Just make sure the gunk is warm and well diluted before you add it to your fuel tank. Big gobs of agglomerated EVA to not a WCM make!

Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607025
12/18/17 09:25 AM
12/18/17 09:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,000
Pennsylvania
Boomer Offline
Boomer  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,000
Pennsylvania
+1 on the Power Service White Bottle. Use it all winter for my signature 2013 VW diesel Passat. Nary a gel problem even when we once hit -20 and car was outside for about 10 hours.


2013 VW Passat TDI SE, 61,200 miles Castrol Professional VW507 5W-30
2017 VW Golf All Track 18,370 miles Castrol Professional VW505 5W-40
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607038
12/18/17 09:48 AM
12/18/17 09:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 621
Finland
Finn Offline
Finn  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 621
Finland
IMHO need for additives depends on whether you get 'winter grade' diesel or not.

Here you get winter and arctic grade diesel during the winter depending on location and at least I have never had any problems with diesels in the winter. Winter diesel here has typically cloud point of -29 degrees Celsius (-20 F) and arctic -40 degrees Celsius.


2000 Jaguar XJR | 1978 Corvette 383" | 1986 Corvette 350" | 2011 K1600GT | 1991 300 SE | 1993 GTS1000 | 2000 BMW X5 3.0i
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607045
12/18/17 09:51 AM
12/18/17 09:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,181
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,181
Lakeville, MN
Howes or Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement. Follow the directions on how much to use depending on the temps you expect to run into. Particularly important if you buy diesel fuel in a warmer climate than where you will be or you aren't sure what the fuel you are buying is rated to temperature wise.

Always fun to watch how many trucks coming north run into trouble when the weather actually turns cold here...

Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607132
12/18/17 11:17 AM
12/18/17 11:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 557
Wisconsin
Srt20 Offline
Srt20  Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 557
Wisconsin
They dont have winter diesel in CO??

I dont use anything in WI. It sits outside all year long, and I rarely plug it in, maybe at -25+F.

We also drive out to WY, ID, MT, CO in winter to ride in the mountains. Never had to add anything then either.

Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607310
12/18/17 01:52 PM
12/18/17 01:52 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,101
SoCal
UG_Passat Offline
UG_Passat  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,101
SoCal
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Three years now I have had my Ram Eco-Diesel here in Colorado and only twice have I run into fuel gelling issues but the temps were south of -20 degrees F. In three years, I have never utilized a fuel treatment of any kind. My truck sits outside, as the motorcycles get the garage. I do have a block heater, and always "plug in" on cold nights.

This weekend we are supposed to have temps dipping to the negative 10 mark or lower and I thought I might add some treatment, but I have some questions.

1. If you are in a cold climate, do you always use a fuel treatment all winter, or only when the forecast is showing very frigid temps?

2. Is there a particular brand of treatment that is superior and even multi-use, in the fact that it also cleans up the injectors, etc.?

3. Seems I have read that some drivers use certain treatments that are great for pre-2007 diesels, but the newer engines shouldn't use. Is there anything to this claim?

4. Having a modern V-6 turbo diesel that has a DEF system.... is that an important consideration in this decision?


Thanks for the help!





1. Use all winter.
2. Most of the anti-gel, such as Powerservice Diesel Fuel Supplement contains cleaning additives, cetane improvers, lubricity improvers and what's left is a small amount of anti-gel.
3. The 2007 is the timeframe for the ULSD transition, so additives had to be reformulated maintain the max sulfur levels in ULSD.
4. No, not really. It's the anti-wear/Extreme Pressure additives in the oil that is the bigger concern.

Beware, anti-gel additives can gel itself, when it's in its bottle, until it mixes with the diesel.

Last edited by UG_Passat; 12/18/17 01:54 PM.

2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607333
12/18/17 02:16 PM
12/18/17 02:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 112
CO
UberArchetype Offline
UberArchetype  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 112
CO
Howes is the best in my experience, plus has a better lubricity profile. No worries about the emissions system(s). DEF only cares about the NOX it's targeting in your exhaust.

Relying on the oil companies to always ensure proper anti-gel treat is not a very good idea if you are running in really cold temps (<-20) on a regular basis. Most people never have a problem, but only you can decide what the risk is worth.

Last edited by UberArchetype; 12/18/17 02:17 PM.
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: UberArchetype] #4607356
12/18/17 02:34 PM
12/18/17 02:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
salesrep Offline
salesrep  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
Originally Posted By: UberArchetype

Relying on the oil companies to always ensure proper anti-gel treat is not a very good idea if you are running in really cold temps (<-20) on a regular basis. Most people never have a problem, but only you can decide what the risk is worth.


Agreed.
Fuel Distributors will portion in additives at the terminal or buy directly from fuel additive manufacturers such as Power Service,ET, Schaeffers to name a few. What product, its properties, ie anti-gel, jet deicer, lubricity, cetane boost etc. and the amount is a direct cost to them of a penny or three per gallon.
Some will cut corners and add later in the season and/or cut short in the Spring, depending on the forecast and will skim on dosage occasionally. Others, the good ones, will add premium products at full dosage, even double dosage if the winter turns to -20 or there abouts.

Throwing a little anti-gel or premium fuel additive on a regular basis, if nothing else, is just cheap insurance.

Last edited by salesrep; 12/18/17 02:38 PM. Reason: facts

High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: Srt20] #4607496
12/18/17 05:18 PM
12/18/17 05:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
BigJohn Offline OP
BigJohn  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Srt20
They dont have winter diesel in CO??


Of course they do, but if you would have read my original post, my diesel gelled and didn't flow with we hit -24 here at the house and -26 at DIA.

I regularly drive up to ski in the mountains and dozens and dozens of times the temp on my truck shows -20 to -28..... and I don't want problems.


'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Delo 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40
'05 KTM 950 ADV-S, RT4 15w40
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: UberArchetype] #4607500
12/18/17 05:26 PM
12/18/17 05:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
BigJohn Offline OP
BigJohn  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 894
Colorado
Originally Posted By: UberArchetype
Howes is the best in my experience, plus has a better lubricity profile. No worries about the emissions system(s). DEF only cares about the NOX it's targeting in your exhaust.

Relying on the oil companies to always ensure proper anti-gel treat is not a very good idea if you are running in really cold temps (<-20) on a regular basis. Most people never have a problem, but only you can decide what the risk is worth.


Is it bad to run these additives if the temp is 30 degrees?


'14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4, Delo 5w40
'15 Mercedes ML250, PenEuro 5w30
'05 BMW R1200GS, M1 15w50
'02 Yamaha WR426, RT4 15w40
'05 KTM 950 ADV-S, RT4 15w40
Re: Questions: Winter Diesel Fuel Treatment [Re: BigJohn] #4607530
12/18/17 05:59 PM
12/18/17 05:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
salesrep Offline
salesrep  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
No. As long as you donít go over a triple treat, you are good, just spending a little money on anti-gel and jet de-icer that you donít need

Last edited by salesrep; 12/18/17 06:01 PM. Reason: Add on

High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!
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