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#4606328 - 12/17/17 02:47 PM new delo ck4 15w40
waltywalt Offline


Registered: 02/10/14
Posts: 322
Loc: ny
Went to napa the other day. Asked the guy for oil n filter for a 2006 ford f350. Powerstroke 6.0. He gave me the filter and. Five gal of of the new delo ck4 oil. Well after doing the oil change i went home and looked up the new oil. Seems ford doesnt want any ck4 oils in there engines, old or new. I wrote to chevron and there responce was that they back there product and if the engine fails that they would want a history of maintenace and an oil sample. That didnt make me feel any better. I asked a simple question to chevron. I asked if chevron was okay with using the new ck4 oil in a powerstroke. They didnt answer me. I asked them there take on fords stance. No answer. Now onto my next question. My boss has a bottle of rev x at the shop, should i use it. Will it help. Also should i buy a bottle of zddp max and just add it to the oil. Or should i dump the ck4 stuff and get the older cj4 stuff.

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#4606345 - 12/17/17 03:03 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
car51 Offline


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 10087
Loc: Southwest PA
Good luck finding CJ-4 stuff as most HDEO i see is CK-4

You donít need ANY additives also smile

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#4606370 - 12/17/17 03:39 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
waltywalt Offline


Registered: 02/10/14
Posts: 322
Loc: ny
Went to napa yeaterday that have alot of the older cj4 stuff from many makes. Also showed the manager the paper from ford stating there response to the new oil and the manager was unaware of it. He copied it for future reference. He said for me to bring in my receipt and he eill talk to owner. Maybe some free oil.


Edited by waltywalt (12/17/17 03:41 PM)

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#4606554 - 12/17/17 06:58 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
PiperOne Offline


Registered: 10/25/17
Posts: 172
Loc: A Highway Near You
The big thing to avoid (for Powerstrokes) is CK-4/SNrated oils. The SN rating means low phos and that's what is scaring Ford. If you look at a jug of genuine Motorcraft oil for a diesel it says "over 1000 ppm of Phosphorus" right on the label.

Check the MSSxxxx-F1 list to be sure...but most of the new CK-4 Rotella stuff does not have the dual SN rating...and still has lots of phos in it.


Edited by PiperOne (12/17/17 07:00 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.

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#4606661 - 12/17/17 08:34 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5414
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
PQIA is your friend here. Look up the oil in question and make sure it's 1000 PPM Phos. If not, pass. There are plenty of tractor oils out there that are easily 1000 PPM laugh
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4606911 - 12/18/17 05:51 AM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 7388
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Given that this engine in the topic is a 6.0L and not 6.7L, that also brings into light the continuing question about Ford's position. It's clear Ford is scared about the reduction on phos; they want 1000ppm or more. And while it's reasonable to think they probably tested some of the dual rated lubes in the current engine (6.7L), I SERIOUSLY doubt they ran any tests whatsoever in the older engines (6.4, 6.0, 7.3). All they did was throw out a blanket statement that all engines are recommended for their newly spec'd lube.

I realize it's difficult to make a decision here. It's easy for those of us who have no skin in the game to make recommendations. But Chevron's position is also based on a slew of tests (as are the opinions of Mobil, SOPUS, Castrol, etc) and I'm sure they also have statements about what's OK, just as does Ford.

If, for some incredibly remote reason, you actually had a lube-related failure, all Chevron wants is a look at the engine and an oil sample. It is extremely unlikely that the lube itself would cause engine damage or failure. It's more likely with your 6.0L that some other malady will cause it's demise. And, the approach that Chevron would take is no different than any other lube maker; they'd want to see the evidence of proper maintenance and take samples. Just about any lube maker will take the very same approach to a warranty claim. It's not like Ford is going to warrant your 6.0L at this point. So any warranty that would be in play would come from the lube maker (Chevron in this case). And they already told you it's OK to use, and what it would take to satisfy a warranty claim with them.

Personally, I'd use the CK-4 and not worry about it.
_________________________
The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money

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#4606940 - 12/18/17 06:52 AM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: dnewton3]
2015_PSD Offline


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 7196
Loc: SE Texas
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Given that this engine in the topic is a 6.0L and not 6.7L, that also brings into light the continuing question about Ford's position. It's clear Ford is scared about the reduction on phos; they want 1000ppm or more. And while it's reasonable to think they probably tested some of the dual rated lubes in the current engine (6.7L), I SERIOUSLY doubt they ran any tests whatsoever in the older engines (6.4, 6.0, 7.3). All they did was throw out a blanket statement that all engines are recommended for their newly spec'd lube.
Fully agreed--they "umbrella'ed" the statement in a CYA move for the whole PowerStroke line. The root issue seems to be long term rocker arm wear in 6.7L engines when using oils that contain less than 100PPM of phosphorus. With that said, I have also read that some 6.7L rocker arms have to be replaced at some point anyway (far earlier than one would expect) and that was prior the introduction of CK-4 and Ford's accompanying position statement. Last, but not least, there are some arguments that other additives in the oil make up for the reduction of phosphorus.

So in the end, Ford comes off looking like a weasel but not supplying their test criteria and test results to the oil manufacturer's at large and to a large degree makes their stance seem like that of 540Rat's test results because they (Ford) will not allow the results to be peer-reviewed and critiqued (which smacks more of an engine design flaw than a new oil specification issue). I have enough CJ-4 oil to carry me past my warranty and at that point, if there are no readily available mainstream oils with the new -F1 Ford specification, I will be using CK-4 oil too.
_________________________
2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - M1 0W-40/OEM
2018 MB C300 2.0L - Factory Fill
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 5W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU

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#4607585 - 12/18/17 06:49 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: waltywalt]
Dak27 Offline


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 148
Loc: UT. USA
Why is it taking so long for the Major Producers to obtain Ford's approval? I read a bulletin from Delo regarding further testing with their CK4 oils to pass Ford's spec, but it was dated in late 2016.

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#4607616 - 12/18/17 07:18 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: Dak27]
2015_PSD Offline


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 7196
Loc: SE Texas
Originally Posted By: Dak27
Why is it taking so long for the Major Producers to obtain Ford's approval? I read a bulletin from Delo regarding further testing with their CK4 oils to pass Ford's spec, but it was dated in late 2016.
My take on it is that >1000PPM phosphorus goes against the CK-4 specification for certain viscosities so only some can receive the Ford specification (typically 15W-40 oils). Amsoil's 5W-40 and one of Shell's 5W-40 oils meet it, but very few other majors do. The approved list from Ford has plenty of oils on it, but most are not main stream.
_________________________
2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - M1 0W-40/OEM
2018 MB C300 2.0L - Factory Fill
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 5W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU

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#4607949 - 12/19/17 08:03 AM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: Dak27]
Solarent Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 945
Loc: Toronto ON
Originally Posted By: Dak27
Why is it taking so long for the Major Producers to obtain Ford's approval? I read a bulletin from Delo regarding further testing with their CK4 oils to pass Ford's spec, but it was dated in late 2016.


Ford is developing a new engine test for the 6.7 L powerstroke - it was supposed to be ready in May 2017 - but like all other engine tests being developed right now - there have been significant delays. It also doesn't help that ford's attention has been focused more on SN+ as of late.

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#4608497 - 12/19/17 04:57 PM Re: new delo ck4 15w40 [Re: 2015_PSD]
Dak27 Offline


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 148
Loc: UT. USA
Thanks for the info, 2015_PSD and Solarent. Interesting stuff for sure. I no longer own a diesel powered Ford pickup, but I'm interested to see how this plays out.

Best Regards!


Edited by Dak27 (12/19/17 05:00 PM)

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