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#4605478 - 12/16/17 02:52 PM 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Indy
This rolled into the shop today with an oil change reminder sticker indicating 11,000 miles on the OCI. Mileage at service was hand written on the sticker along with next lof due. No question there. Aftermarket shop did last lof. Car was here for 2.4 liter connecting rod noise inspection and passed inspection. 2011 Kia Optima 2.4 GDI. Got an oil and filter change after inspection with OEM filter and Mobil conventional. I do realize 11k on a jobber filter is blasphemy! Submitted purely for your amusement. Enjoy.




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#4605491 - 12/16/17 03:04 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 3413
Loc: Columbus,Nebraska
Never have seen a DENSO oil filter look like that.

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#4605501 - 12/16/17 03:15 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4944
Loc: Great White North.. eh
Purolator typical tear. I wouldn't use these filters, ever.
_________________________
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Valvoline 20w50, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30

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#4605553 - 12/16/17 03:57 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4342
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?
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2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4605625 - 12/16/17 05:03 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: PimTac]
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Indy
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?


The main reason the tsb was released was due to the Lambda V6 engines with their cartridge filters and poor fit or quality of aftermarket jobber quality filters, and to a lesser extent different flow rates contributing to start up chain rattle. I can tell you unwaveringly the bulk of the 2.4's that come in locked up or rattling have Fram COR filters on them, but I feel this may be simply due to "law of averages" since Wal-Mart is a big express oil changer around here. A lot of Mighty filters on 2.4 failures as well. Jiffy Lube I presume?

On a side note, I have my hypotheses regarding the 2.4 and 2.0 Theta rod bearing problem. The connecting rod bearings are "selective" and color coded. This means there are no standard size rod bearings. One must measure the crank pin and the rod bearing journal and select the closest fit bearing insert. My guess is that errors were made in the selection. Pure conjecture based on what I know and have seen, but I have seen both bearing halves on the same side of the crank pin a few times. It takes quite a bit of rod bearing clearance to accomplish this.

Also, a lot of the failures have very spotty to nonexistent service history, as could be expected.
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Apparently I own too many cars and toys to fit in a signature.

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#4605725 - 12/16/17 06:41 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4342
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?


The main reason the tsb was released was due to the Lambda V6 engines with their cartridge filters and poor fit or quality of aftermarket jobber quality filters, and to a lesser extent different flow rates contributing to start up chain rattle. I can tell you unwaveringly the bulk of the 2.4's that come in locked up or rattling have Fram COR filters on them, but I feel this may be simply due to "law of averages" since Wal-Mart is a big express oil changer around here. A lot of Mighty filters on 2.4 failures as well. Jiffy Lube I presume?

On a side note, I have my hypotheses regarding the 2.4 and 2.0 Theta rod bearing problem. The connecting rod bearings are "selective" and color coded. This means there are no standard size rod bearings. One must measure the crank pin and the rod bearing journal and select the closest fit bearing insert. My guess is that errors were made in the selection. Pure conjecture based on what I know and have seen, but I have seen both bearing halves on the same side of the crank pin a few times. It takes quite a bit of rod bearing clearance to accomplish this.

Also, a lot of the failures have very spotty to nonexistent service history, as could be expected.




Very informative. Is Hyundai/Kia the only manufacturer that uses that system for engine bearings? It seems like a lot of possible confusion could occur instead of using a standard size
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4605746 - 12/16/17 06:56 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
PiperOne Offline


Registered: 10/25/17
Posts: 184
Loc: A Highway Near You
The original GM 6.2/6.5L diesels had selective fit bearings...it was dumb. Once AM General took over making those engines the selective fit system went away.
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HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.

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#4605795 - 12/16/17 08:05 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
MONKEYMAN Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 2231
Loc: St. Louis
69Torino, very informative. Thank you!
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2017 Elantra SE

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#4605843 - 12/16/17 09:18 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: webfors]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29805
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: webfors
Purolator typical tear. I wouldn't use these filters, ever.


+1
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#4605903 - 12/16/17 11:32 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: PimTac]
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Indy
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?


The main reason the tsb was released was due to the Lambda V6 engines with their cartridge filters and poor fit or quality of aftermarket jobber quality filters, and to a lesser extent different flow rates contributing to start up chain rattle. I can tell you unwaveringly the bulk of the 2.4's that come in locked up or rattling have Fram COR filters on them, but I feel this may be simply due to "law of averages" since Wal-Mart is a big express oil changer around here. A lot of Mighty filters on 2.4 failures as well. Jiffy Lube I presume?

On a side note, I have my hypotheses regarding the 2.4 and 2.0 Theta rod bearing problem. The connecting rod bearings are "selective" and color coded. This means there are no standard size rod bearings. One must measure the crank pin and the rod bearing journal and select the closest fit bearing insert. My guess is that errors were made in the selection. Pure conjecture based on what I know and have seen, but I have seen both bearing halves on the same side of the crank pin a few times. It takes quite a bit of rod bearing clearance to accomplish this.

Also, a lot of the failures have very spotty to nonexistent service history, as could be expected.




Very informative. Is Hyundai/Kia the only manufacturer that uses that system for engine bearings? It seems like a lot of possible confusion could occur instead of using a standard size



I know for sure Mitsubishi does it as well. Numbers are laser etched in the snout of the crankshaft corresponding to the exact size of the crank journals, both rod and mains. You must reference the numbers when you order bearings, plus the mic'd size of the rod or main bores. Kia and Hyundai have historically "borrowed" a number of engine design elements from Mitsubishi over the years. I can't really speak for other makes, in a past life I was a Mopar tech. I left when Daimler took over. Now Fiat. eek.
_________________________
Apparently I own too many cars and toys to fit in a signature.

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#4605908 - 12/16/17 11:42 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 242
Loc: Indy
I may also add that this filter number crosses to the dinky Nissan filter, used on the VQ35. I think the Fram number is 6607. While the filter will actually screw onto the mount and the seal is the same size, it will cause a start up rattle. Not sure why and don't care really, it just does. The correct number Fram cross for the Kia 503/504 Mann/Hummel is 9688 or 3593A. Either will be fine. I would suggest nobody with a Kia or Hyundai use a tiny little Nissan oil filter. Quick lube places do it quite often because they "fit". That is all. smile
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Apparently I own too many cars and toys to fit in a signature.

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#4606694 - 12/17/17 09:05 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: PimTac]
jim302 Offline


Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 410
Loc: Holly Springs, NC USA
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?


I believe the infamous oil filter TSB dates back well before 2011. That TSB scares so many people into buying only OE filters in the forums because how it is worded. The reality is, if someone posted about startup noise on any brand on this forum, most of us would suggest the oil filter as a potential cause... whether the car is a Hyundai, Ford, Chevrolet, or anything else. We all know a failed anti drainback valve can cause problems, particularly the nitrile rubber type found in most jobber or standard aftermarket filters. Quick lubes also are known to sometimes substitute the intended filter for another that they have in stock. A flat rate tech working a warranty claim quite frankly isn't going to spend the time to cross reference filter part numbers to make sure the right one was used or look at the different methods of construction to see if that might be the cause of an unusual noise. It is much easier to say that a known good filter should be used in this situation to see if it fixes the problem before going to more expensive and time consuming options.

What bothers me most is how some people interpret the TSB. I see this on other forums, and even from some dealers... they think the OE filter has a special valve that is missing in aftermarket filters. We all know that aftermarket filters include these whenever required. They also think that using an aftermarket filter automatically voids your warranty which is 100% untrue. Only damage caused by an aftermarket filter would cause the warranty to be void... a policy which every auto manufacturer has.

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#4607448 - 12/18/17 04:13 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24620
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
This should be pointed out to the Pennzoil people.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#4607603 - 12/18/17 07:06 PM Re: 11k+ Pennzoil PZ-37 C&P Torn Media [Re: 69Torino]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4429
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: jim302
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Wasn’t 2011 around the time period that Kia/ Hyundai saw problems with using filters other than OEM thus pushing the notice to use OEM only? Not only was this filter used well past its time but maybe contributed to the knocking?


I believe the infamous oil filter TSB dates back well before 2011. That TSB scares so many people into buying only OE filters in the forums because how it is worded. The reality is, if someone posted about startup noise on any brand on this forum, most of us would suggest the oil filter as a potential cause... whether the car is a Hyundai, Ford, Chevrolet, or anything else. We all know a failed anti drainback valve can cause problems, particularly the nitrile rubber type found in most jobber or standard aftermarket filters. Quick lubes also are known to sometimes substitute the intended filter for another that they have in stock. A flat rate tech working a warranty claim quite frankly isn't going to spend the time to cross reference filter part numbers to make sure the right one was used or look at the different methods of construction to see if that might be the cause of an unusual noise. It is much easier to say that a known good filter should be used in this situation to see if it fixes the problem before going to more expensive and time consuming options.

What bothers me most is how some people interpret the TSB. I see this on other forums, and even from some dealers... they think the OE filter has a special valve that is missing in aftermarket filters. We all know that aftermarket filters include these whenever required. They also think that using an aftermarket filter automatically voids your warranty which is 100% untrue. Only damage caused by an aftermarket filter would cause the warranty to be void... a policy which every auto manufacturer has.

Actually started on the 2.0 Beta motor back in 2005.

Quote:

Technical Service Bulletin
ENGINE MECHANICAL
05-20-002
JULY, 2005
ALL MODELS
USE OF AFTERMARKET ENGINE OIL FILTERS CAUSING ENGINE KNOCKING NOISE
DESCRIPTION:
Some vehicles may experience an engine knock noise with the use of an aftermarket oil filter. Aftermarket oil filters may use different materials, construction and specifications than genuine Hyundai oil filters, which may lead to pressure variations within the engine, thus contributing to an engine knocking noise.
VEHICLES AFFECTED:
All Models
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
Perform an oil change on the vehicle and replace the aftermarket oil filter with a genuine Hyundai oil filter.
WARRANTY INFORMATION:
Normal warranty procedures apply.
This is not a warranty repair.



Seems the PZ-37 has a problem, had a similar issue on my sisters Santa Fe.

She is getting some TG filters on hers for a while (got a bunch of the TG3593a on clearance from Walmart).
_________________________
1994 Honda VT1100C: Peak 15w-40/TG/2500 mile OCI
2002 Ford F150: GTX HM 5w-20/EcoGard Syn/1yr OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20/CQ Blue/5k OCI


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