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#4605185 - 12/16/17 09:18 AM Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait?
Dieselfume1 Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 9
Loc: MT
Watched a demo last night on Schaeffer 15w-40 w/ moly. It would plate up on the roller when others would not, just like a moly grease. My question is, is having a moly that plates up a desirable trait to have on the inside of an internal combustion engine? I kinda figure if there's no oil long enough the the moly to plate up, you've got other problems.... I also know that Molybdenum disulfide is a type of clay..... Again, doesn't bother me in a grease, but in an engine?

Opinions?

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#4605190 - 12/16/17 09:24 AM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9398
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Dieselfume1
Watched a demo last night on Schaeffer 15w-40 w/ moly. It would plate up on the roller when others would not, just like a moly grease. My question is, is having a moly that plates up a desirable trait to have on the inside of an internal combustion engine? I kinda figure if there's no oil long enough the the moly to plate up, you've got other problems.... I also know that Molybdenum disulfide is a type of clay..... Again, doesn't bother me in a grease, but in an engine?

Opinions?

If you search around on this site a bit, there are hundreds if not thousands of posts on moly in motor oil. Take a look, you will get opinions there.

And just to start you off, molybdenum disulfide is a different compound than what is used in most motor oils. Look up the difference.
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#4605249 - 12/16/17 10:01 AM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4292
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Most oils have moly in them for anti-friction purposes. The exception would be Valvoline which uses a secret sauce so to speak. Moly is just one of several options for motor oil. Which oil are you running now in your vehicles? You can then search the uoa and voa sub forums here to get a general idea.
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#4605269 - 12/16/17 10:35 AM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Mainia Offline


Registered: 04/06/15
Posts: 205
Loc: Upper midwest
Yea "load up my rings" not the best I would think.

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#4605360 - 12/16/17 12:49 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Dieselfume1 Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 9
Loc: MT
I've run many oils. Mobil 1 is one of the long time ones I've used. Recently been switching farm equipment as well as autos over to TRC's Moly XL Pro-Spec 3
I know they run a type of non plating micro-moly, but I'm not familiar with this type that Schaeffers is running.

Makes me wonder about what a plating moly could do to those tight fitting tolerances like crnak/rod bearings, valve guides, valve last, piston skirt/ring gaps? The fact that the schaeffer guy proved that it plated up like a moly grease on the load test machine tells me that their moly is different than others, and maybe not in a good way?

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#4605469 - 12/16/17 02:47 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
ZZman Offline


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5786
Loc: Michigan
I thought the advantage of moly is the plates rub against each other saving metal contact?
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#4605683 - 12/16/17 06:12 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Dieselfume1 Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 9
Loc: MT
That is the way I understand it. But in areas where there's thousandths of an inch of tolerance between turning free and binding, I'm not how sure I am that I want anything plating up in those areas.

Most engine oils with moly are a micro/liquid non settling moly. It appears that this Schaeffers stuff has both.

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#4605820 - 12/16/17 08:41 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: ZZman]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10979
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I thought the advantage of moly is the plates rub against each other saving metal contact?
I would think plating is actally the wrong definition of Molys actions in motor oils.
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#4605845 - 12/16/17 09:26 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: CT8]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2188
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I thought the advantage of moly is the plates rub against each other saving metal contact?
I would think plating is actally the wrong definition of Molys actions in motor oils.
+1

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#4605849 - 12/16/17 09:39 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Dieselfume1 Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 9
Loc: MT
How else would you put it when the Schaeffer salesman puts their moly 15w-40 on the roller, turns it on, lets it squeal, and then when it quiets down he says it's because the moly has "plated up" ?

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#4605879 - 12/16/17 10:45 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39864
Loc: 'Stralia
Engine surfaces on engine surfaces is bad.

The additives (Zinc, and Mo, and other stuff) for tribofilms on wearing surfaces...Zinc forms zinc phosphate iron oxide "glassy" like structures, which are on top of the wearing metal surfaces.

So yes, in time, with heat, temperature and rubbing contact, something "plates" the surfaces (*).

The moly creates a tribofilm with little pockets of MoS2...teflon additives can end up in there too.

So Schaeffers aren't in any way unique...

I take it you had a demonstration of the Timken test machine, aka "the one armed bandit".

It's a sales tool, and it's sold a LOT of oil (I know, I've been fooled before, and people still are with RAT540 and his blog).

(*) When their oil performance like nothing else did, replay what was happening at the time. Salesman would have tested a bunch of oils, put them in, loaded them up, and they failed.

While telling you about how great Schaeffers was, the machine was running. the surfaces there there together. A couple of "pulses" on the handle while fluffing on about the superiority of the oil, it's had 35-40 seconds of friction to build some heat in the rubbing surfaces, and start the surface activity for the tribofilms.

Then he leans on it, not in a jerky fashion, but a slow and steady load-up, and miraculously the oil does amazingly compared to it's peers.

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#4605889 - 12/16/17 11:02 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39864
Loc: 'Stralia
Here, look at this one, and see how it's treated differently...



And the process discussed here...


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#4605991 - 12/17/17 07:19 AM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Shannow]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9398
Loc: Upper Midwest
Wow what a joke. And Id trust that other manufacturer why?

That Amsoil video perfectly shows the utter deception of that test and of that one website.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

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#4606028 - 12/17/17 08:23 AM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Dieselfume1]
Dieselfume1 Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 9
Loc: MT
thanks for sharing, very informative!

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#4606211 - 12/17/17 12:43 PM Re: Plating moly in engine oil. a desireable trait? [Re: Shannow]
Pajero Offline


Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 855
Loc: Rio Rancho, NM
Informative. Thanks Shannow




Respectfully,

Pajero!
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