Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back?

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The only way to hit the arbitrary 2025 targets is a massive increase in EV vehicles, which will need to be subsidized by the remaining mix of the sales or gov't subsidies. Never mind that the electrical grid may not be able to handle the switch to EVs.
Hydrogen vehicles are just too insignificant in numbers to consider.
I prefer market forces with some gov't oversight - example - emissions targets that are reasonable.
 
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Originally Posted By: Silk
Smaller engines get more mpg - it's pretty simple.

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.
Talking real world fuel use performance not the EPA numbers ....
And I prefer to drive larger vehicles, which given equal safety systems, are safer.
 
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This is analogous to another current affair isnt it. It's clear that legislation has steered the course of vehicle develoment with a strong grip, and it's been the spur to drive very specific advancements in 'energy management' and pollution and it would be interesting to see what the industry would look like had they faced no regulations. I couldn't even imagine; 14L-20L passenger car engines, uncatalysed, everyone's got 1200hp at least, still using carbs. Lead and manganese everywhere, cancer rates skyrocket (even compared to today's standard). I don't appreciate CAFE telling me which grade of oil to use in my property as much as anyone but you have to admit we're seeing some very clever solutions.
 
Like Danno said, definitely emission standards, but I have my doubts about the usefulness of CAFE fuel economy standards. The sales figures of pickups and SUVs vs more fuel efficient cars probably depend on fuel prices more than anything else.
 
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?
 
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Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

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Absolutely. And while they are at it, get that alcohol out of our gasoline and into those hogs, chickens, beef cattle, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

confused.gif



You concur with his statement regarding pollution controls? Do tell.
 
Pollution and CAFE are different, unless you count CO2 which is debatable whether they are pollution or benign.

There are always way to get around CAFE standard, like rating a vehicle as a truck instead of car, or use foot print as a way to inflate allowed mpg (i.e. making Altima as big as Maxima).

You can also hybrid more models instead of selling fewer EVs.

But in the end consumer is always right, they want CUV and SUV now when oil price is cheap and hybrid and cars when oil price is high.
 
Originally Posted By: Danno

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.


Take a look outside North America - you DON'T need a huge engine in an outsized vehicle to carry normal loads and 1 or 2 people. How does the rest of the world do it ? We must be special.
 
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.
Agree with this 100%
 
Originally Posted By: Silk
Originally Posted By: Danno

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.


Take a look outside North America - you DON'T need a huge engine in an outsized vehicle to carry normal loads and 1 or 2 people. How does the rest of the world do it ? We must be special.


Old MB 200D full size car carries 5, big trunk and can do 80-90 mph all day long on 59 HP. That doesn't work for most Americans, they need 150HP+ in a small car to do the 65-70 MPH speed limit. I never understood it for daily drivers and probably never will.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


C’mon man you know that’s not what I’m saying. LOL. There is a huge population that wants as much fuel economy as they can get, as there is for an alternative fuel/hybrid car, for a whole variety of reasons that have nothing to do with “because the gov’t told me to”. The free market will cater to that market segment, and do it far more efficiently and effectively than gov’t. That’s a win for everyone.

And this is coming from a guy that drove a Prius for 10 years, I’m pretty sure it’s not because I’d love to have more pollution, and I’m 100% sure it wasn’t because of any gov’t regulation. And I’m one gazillion % sure it wasn’t cuz it helped me pick up chicks.
 
We've substantially reduced oil imports over the last decade. Some is CAFE, some is fracking technology. Both are good(ish) news. This got our dollar stronger and gives us more leverage over the middle east/ terrorists, if we still care about that and not "rocket man". The macro- vs micro-economics means that to get results, we as an aggregate need to make the resulting gas prices that are enjoyed by all.

Engine management would not be where it is without CAFE in the picture. Feedback fuel ratio, feedback knock, variable valve timing, Atkinson cycles, decent cylinder deactivation systems...

If we didn't have an upper limit, we wouldn't have subsidized econoboxes. And SUVs would keep growing to see over each other until they start hitting low bridges.
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