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Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? #4604631
12/15/17 03:28 PM
12/15/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 426
Mississippi
Speak2Mountain Offline OP
Speak2Mountain  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 426
Mississippi
To let market forces drive manufacturing or do car companies have to be forced to that end of producing cars that get better MPG

Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604637
12/15/17 03:33 PM
12/15/17 03:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,900
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,900
New Zealand
Smaller engines get more mpg - it's pretty simple.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604640
12/15/17 03:37 PM
12/15/17 03:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
The only way to hit the arbitrary 2025 targets is a massive increase in EV vehicles, which will need to be subsidized by the remaining mix of the sales or gov't subsidies. Never mind that the electrical grid may not be able to handle the switch to EVs.
Hydrogen vehicles are just too insignificant in numbers to consider.
I prefer market forces with some gov't oversight - example - emissions targets that are reasonable.

Last edited by Danno; 12/15/17 03:39 PM.

2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Silk] #4604642
12/15/17 03:38 PM
12/15/17 03:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Silk
Smaller engines get more mpg - it's pretty simple.

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.
Talking real world fuel use performance not the EPA numbers ....
And I prefer to drive larger vehicles, which given equal safety systems, are safer.

Last edited by Danno; 12/15/17 03:40 PM.

2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604648
12/15/17 03:48 PM
12/15/17 03:48 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 146
New York Queens
Ram02 Offline
Ram02  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 146
New York Queens
Oh yes let CAFE rollback and let 10w30 be the normal again


2013 Malibu 2LT M1 5w30
2013 Accord Sport M1 AP 0w20
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604649
12/15/17 03:49 PM
12/15/17 03:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,580
Toronto
This is analogous to another current affair isnt it. It's clear that legislation has steered the course of vehicle develoment with a strong grip, and it's been the spur to drive very specific advancements in 'energy management' and pollution and it would be interesting to see what the industry would look like had they faced no regulations. I couldn't even imagine; 14L-20L passenger car engines, uncatalysed, everyone's got 1200hp at least, still using carbs. Lead and manganese everywhere, cancer rates skyrocket (even compared to today's standard). I don't appreciate CAFE telling me which grade of oil to use in my property as much as anyone but you have to admit we're seeing some very clever solutions.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604651
12/15/17 03:49 PM
12/15/17 03:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 330
Phoenix, Az
MoreCowbellAz Offline
MoreCowbellAz  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 330
Phoenix, Az
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


07 Toyota RAV4 2.4L
07 Toyota Prius Touring
00 Harley Road King Classic
11 Kia Soul 2.0L (mine to maintain)
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604654
12/15/17 03:51 PM
12/15/17 03:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 321
Alberta
carviewsonic Offline
carviewsonic  Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 321
Alberta
Like Danno said, definitely emission standards, but I have my doubts about the usefulness of CAFE fuel economy standards. The sales figures of pickups and SUVs vs more fuel efficient cars probably depend on fuel prices more than anything else.


'18 Impala
'05 Park Avenue
'07 Honda Accord
'09 VStar 1300
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604657
12/15/17 03:52 PM
12/15/17 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,848
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,848
Kendall, FL


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A + e air WIX10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Mobil1 Extended Performance 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX49670

Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: MoreCowbellAz] #4604658
12/15/17 03:52 PM
12/15/17 03:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,481
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,481
NJ
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?

Last edited by Leo99; 12/15/17 03:52 PM.

Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Leo99] #4604662
12/15/17 03:56 PM
12/15/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,337
Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

confused


2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604669
12/15/17 04:06 PM
12/15/17 04:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,385
VA
Gebo Offline
Gebo  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,385
VA
Absolutely. And while they are at it, get that alcohol out of our gasoline and into those hogs, chickens, beef cattle, etc.


'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K
'07 Lex GX470 60K
Amsoil in all engines, transmissions and differentials

Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Danno] #4604670
12/15/17 04:09 PM
12/15/17 04:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,481
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,481
NJ
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

confused


You concur with his statement regarding pollution controls? Do tell.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain] #4604673
12/15/17 04:13 PM
12/15/17 04:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,564
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,564
Silicon Valley
Pollution and CAFE are different, unless you count CO2 which is debatable whether they are pollution or benign.

There are always way to get around CAFE standard, like rating a vehicle as a truck instead of car, or use foot print as a way to inflate allowed mpg (i.e. making Altima as big as Maxima).

You can also hybrid more models instead of selling fewer EVs.

But in the end consumer is always right, they want CUV and SUV now when oil price is cheap and hybrid and cars when oil price is high.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Danno] #4604677
12/15/17 04:15 PM
12/15/17 04:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,900
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,900
New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Danno

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.


Take a look outside North America - you DON'T need a huge engine in an outsized vehicle to carry normal loads and 1 or 2 people. How does the rest of the world do it ? We must be special.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
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