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#4604631 - 12/15/17 03:28 PM Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back?
Speak2Mountain Offline


Registered: 04/07/17
Posts: 346
Loc: Mississippi
To let market forces drive manufacturing or do car companies have to be forced to that end of producing cars that get better MPG

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#4604637 - 12/15/17 03:33 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
Silk Online   content


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4549
Loc: New Zealand
Smaller engines get more mpg - it's pretty simple.
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1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

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#4604640 - 12/15/17 03:37 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1987
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
The only way to hit the arbitrary 2025 targets is a massive increase in EV vehicles, which will need to be subsidized by the remaining mix of the sales or gov't subsidies. Never mind that the electrical grid may not be able to handle the switch to EVs.
Hydrogen vehicles are just too insignificant in numbers to consider.
I prefer market forces with some gov't oversight - example - emissions targets that are reasonable.


Edited by Danno (12/15/17 03:39 PM)
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#4604642 - 12/15/17 03:38 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Silk]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1987
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Silk
Smaller engines get more mpg - it's pretty simple.

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.
Talking real world fuel use performance not the EPA numbers ....
And I prefer to drive larger vehicles, which given equal safety systems, are safer.


Edited by Danno (12/15/17 03:40 PM)
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#4604648 - 12/15/17 03:48 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
Ram02 Offline


Registered: 05/13/17
Posts: 131
Loc: New York Queens
Oh yes let CAFE rollback and let 10w30 be the normal again
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#4604649 - 12/15/17 03:49 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1345
Loc: toronto
This is analogous to another current affair isnt it. It's clear that legislation has steered the course of vehicle develoment with a strong grip, and it's been the spur to drive very specific advancements in 'energy management' and pollution and it would be interesting to see what the industry would look like had they faced no regulations. I couldn't even imagine; 14L-20L passenger car engines, uncatalysed, everyone's got 1200hp at least, still using carbs. Lead and manganese everywhere, cancer rates skyrocket (even compared to today's standard). I don't appreciate CAFE telling me which grade of oil to use in my property as much as anyone but you have to admit we're seeing some very clever solutions.

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#4604651 - 12/15/17 03:49 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
MoreCowbellAz Offline


Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 322
Loc: Phoenix, Az
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.
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#4604654 - 12/15/17 03:51 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
carviewsonic Offline


Registered: 08/17/16
Posts: 217
Loc: Alberta
Like Danno said, definitely emission standards, but I have my doubts about the usefulness of CAFE fuel economy standards. The sales figures of pickups and SUVs vs more fuel efficient cars probably depend on fuel prices more than anything else.
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#4604657 - 12/15/17 03:52 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8861
Loc: Southeast Florida
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#4604658 - 12/15/17 03:52 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: MoreCowbellAz]
Leo99 Offline


Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 3039
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


Edited by Leo99 (12/15/17 03:52 PM)
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#4604662 - 12/15/17 03:56 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Leo99]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1987
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

confused
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2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash

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#4604669 - 12/15/17 04:06 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 2077
Loc: VA
Absolutely. And while they are at it, get that alcohol out of our gasoline and into those hogs, chickens, beef cattle, etc.
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#4604670 - 12/15/17 04:09 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Danno]
Leo99 Offline


Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 3039
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Gov't ANYTHING should be rolled back. Or 75% of it anyway. Let free enterprise figure out the proper cost/benefit.


We need 75% more pollution in the air and water?


I don't see him stating that in his comment, but OK , let's go with that. Not.

confused


You concur with his statement regarding pollution controls? Do tell.
_________________________
Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles
2004 Rav4 359,000 miles
2015 Camry 59,000 miles

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#4604673 - 12/15/17 04:13 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Speak2Mountain]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 14206
Loc: Silicon Valley
Pollution and CAFE are different, unless you count CO2 which is debatable whether they are pollution or benign.

There are always way to get around CAFE standard, like rating a vehicle as a truck instead of car, or use foot print as a way to inflate allowed mpg (i.e. making Altima as big as Maxima).

You can also hybrid more models instead of selling fewer EVs.

But in the end consumer is always right, they want CUV and SUV now when oil price is cheap and hybrid and cars when oil price is high.
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#4604677 - 12/15/17 04:15 PM Re: Should Govt. CAFE Standards Be Rolled Back? [Re: Danno]
Silk Online   content


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4549
Loc: New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Danno

Only if the smaller engines are in smaller vehicles - can't ignore the laws of physics.


Take a look outside North America - you DON'T need a huge engine in an outsized vehicle to carry normal loads and 1 or 2 people. How does the rest of the world do it ? We must be special.
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

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