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Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? #4603950
12/14/17 10:56 PM
12/14/17 10:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2
TN
Salsashark Offline OP
Salsashark  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2
TN
So here is my dilemma and question. While i understand that some cars simply need synthetic oil i am not a fan of the stuff. I have nothing against it and have used it in the past. But i am a weirdo (not by the standards of this forum i am sure) who just likes to change oil. I like to be under my car every 5,000 miles to change the oil and check the the mechanicals (suspension, ect). I have a 3 hour commute each day at 80mph. So i have always been comfortable on my last 5 cars doing conventional oil every 5k to 7k. oil is always up to temp and i have never had a problem. but here is my question.

I have bought several used cars and trucks with about 100k and drive them to 200k-250k and get another car. This time i am thinking about getting a new 2017 car. my previous newest car was a 2003 and a lot has changed since then. I am looking at a basic compact car (versa, elantra, cruze, mirage) and see that several have either direct injection, turbos, or both. I would like to continue to use conventional oil, and understanding that these engine are harder on oil change it every 3k-5k. While many recommend synthetic is it truly necessary? i have seen some UOA on GM GDI engines using VWB that looked acceptable. But does anyone else use conventional oil in there newer cars? While i understand synthetic is better i just think i would be wasting money changing it out as often as i do. I would think that a conventional oil meeting API spec would provide the same protection for my driving style at 3k-5k as synthetic at the same OCI. Interested to hear opinions and recommendations on this question.

Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603959
12/14/17 11:05 PM
12/14/17 11:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 976
SF BAY AREA, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 976
SF BAY AREA, CA
Use synthetic, don't change it as often? Seems simple.


2007 Crown Vic P71 4.6 ~127K Miles, RP HPS 5W-30, RP 20-820.
2010 Escape FWD 2.5 ~90K Miles, Castrol Edge EP 5W-30, Wix 51348.
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603966
12/14/17 11:12 PM
12/14/17 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
Gone
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,484
Gone
You can get synthetic oil on sale or with mail in rebates on some brands as cheap as the conventional.




Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603970
12/14/17 11:16 PM
12/14/17 11:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 992
MT
jongies3 Offline
jongies3  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 992
MT
For what it's worth, when I used to work in an lube shop I noticed that the Chevy Traverse models made before the GM Dexos spec came out that ran on regular 5W-30 always had really thick varnish under the oil cap whereas the models that ran Dexos synthetic were always spotless. I know it's just a visual thing, but, I always chalked it up to the synthetic oil working harder to keep those engines cleaner. I think it's because DI engines run much hotter than port or throttle body injection systems do.


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM TG-3600 filter
1969 Mustang Mach 1 5.8 V8: PYB 10W-30 Napa Gold 1515 filter
1997 Ford F-250 HD 7.3 Powerstroke V8: T6 5W-40 FRAM PH-3786 filter
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603977
12/14/17 11:26 PM
12/14/17 11:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
Unless the OEM require a spec only synthetic oils have, you can absolutely use a conventional. There is research that suggests exactly what you're proposing... GrpII oils at shorter intervals = less deposits.




'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603985
12/14/17 11:44 PM
12/14/17 11:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
The graph above comes from this report. Its a pdf so i cannot share. But if you want to read it. Look for this title...



'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603994
12/14/17 11:56 PM
12/14/17 11:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Online content
aquariuscsm  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,644
Dallas,Tx USA
Synthetic oil is only $4-$5 more a jug at Walmart. Use synthetic in your fave brand.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4603995
12/14/17 11:58 PM
12/14/17 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 278
Iowa
Iowegian Offline
Iowegian  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 278
Iowa
It is a new car with a warranty. Use recommended oil and keep receipts and a log.
If you go with the Cruz (if gasoline), then use Doxos 1, Gen 2 oil only.

I would also keep the oci down to 5k, at least to start with.

Enjoy your new ride, whatever you choose.


2011 Equinox, 2.4l
2009 Sienna, 3.5l
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604000
12/15/17 12:06 AM
12/15/17 12:06 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,015
Central Wisconsin
dwendt44 Offline
dwendt44  Offline
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,015
Central Wisconsin
Given your daily use, conventional oil may work fine.
Highway miles are easiest on oil.
Conventional oil is better than it used to be.
If it's SN, it could be close to a blend anyway.
Yes GDI is hara on oil. Turbos are hard on oil,
put the two together and they are REALLY hard on oil so
short OCIs are the norm.
Check the condition of oil when changing and go from there.
A lab test would show you the way if you care to check that out.


My 2


There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604032
12/15/17 01:24 AM
12/15/17 01:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,261
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,261
Malaysia
Go conventional for your applications, and A3B4/A5B5 would further help.

Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604062
12/15/17 02:57 AM
12/15/17 02:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
JFAllen Offline
JFAllen  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 177
Albury, NSW
Given a long highway commute, I'd be seriously considering a passenger car diesel, where a USDM variant (chev Cruize) or a Euro (VW/AUDI TDi for example)

When looking ate modern small capacity (often turbo) engines, they work the oil harder than engines of yester year. Any (I repeat ANY) petrol engine that comes equiped with a turbocharger requires synthetic engine oil, unless you enjoy changing turbochargers. The temperatures inside turbo bearings is extreme and mineral oils are unable to hold up. This is especially important if you have a non-water cooled turbo and to regular 'hot' shutdowns (I consider a hot shutdown to be turning the engine off while the turbo is glowing red hot.) The oil bakes and turns to coke in the turbo bearing. upon restart the grit damages the bearing. over time it flogs out and $$ begin to leave your pocket.

One other consideration is modern emissions systems. Especially EGR, and DPF's (on diesels.) Both best removed, but your state authority may not view it that way. And of course the humble crank case ventilation system. DI engines are significantly more susceptible to intake valve deposits than traditional port injection engines. Low SAPS synthetics are specifically formulated to leave less deposits. Remember Mineral oils will have a higher NOACK and subsequently higher overall volatility. combined with higher SAPS will definitely increase deposit formation.

This has to do with how the PCV introduces a warm moist (oily) gas mix into the intake post air cleaner, which mixes with the particulate containing EGR. the results of course are intake deposits and with no port injectors keeping the valves clean... Well you can search the internet.


Bottom line: If you buy a 2017/2018 car, it will come with a very specific manufacturer oil specification. That oil specification will almost 100% of the time require a synthetic base oil to meet the specification.

On a personal note: I like to have the best technology working for me. And when it comes to oils that's the latest generation of synthetics. I even run my 1975 Datsun 180b on Synthetics, because why not wink

Jordan

Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604072
12/15/17 04:26 AM
12/15/17 04:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,401
Kendall, FL
If you're plan is to go with a GM T-GDi then you'd best be served using a dexos1Gen2 oil as recommended by GM. This spec guards against LSPI and premature timing chain wear. But a synthetic oil is not necessary to gain this latest specification from GM. Quite a few synthetic blends like Pennzoil Gold and Quaker State Synthetic Blend fit the bill.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604073
12/15/17 04:28 AM
12/15/17 04:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Salsashark

I have bought several used cars and trucks with about 100k and drive them to 200k-250k and get another car. This time i am thinking about getting a new 2017 car.... Interested to hear opinions and recommendations on this question.


Opinion: I wouldn't do it. Financially it won't make sense, and new tech is generally a mixed blessing at best.

Recommendation: Don't do it. You have a system that has apparently worked for you. Stick with it.

Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604075
12/15/17 05:15 AM
12/15/17 05:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,744
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,744
New York
I'm guessing that you (the OP) are mechanically inclined since you buy used cars with 100K and routinely get another 100 to 150K out of them.....if that's the case I would continue doing so as that is the most economical thing to do.
A new car is not a 'good investment'.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark] #4604080
12/15/17 05:36 AM
12/15/17 05:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
To take us even further off topic, there will presumably come a time when buying a new petroleum-powered car will start to look risky, because it may not, for environmental or fuel supply reasons, stay viable for its anticipated lifespan.

Probably not there yet, but I'm not sure I'd be able to spot when we were.

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