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#4603950 - 12/14/17 09:56 PM Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts?
Salsashark Offline


Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 2
Loc: TN
So here is my dilemma and question. While i understand that some cars simply need synthetic oil i am not a fan of the stuff. I have nothing against it and have used it in the past. But i am a weirdo (not by the standards of this forum i am sure) who just likes to change oil. I like to be under my car every 5,000 miles to change the oil and check the the mechanicals (suspension, ect). I have a 3 hour commute each day at 80mph. So i have always been comfortable on my last 5 cars doing conventional oil every 5k to 7k. oil is always up to temp and i have never had a problem. but here is my question.

I have bought several used cars and trucks with about 100k and drive them to 200k-250k and get another car. This time i am thinking about getting a new 2017 car. my previous newest car was a 2003 and a lot has changed since then. I am looking at a basic compact car (versa, elantra, cruze, mirage) and see that several have either direct injection, turbos, or both. I would like to continue to use conventional oil, and understanding that these engine are harder on oil change it every 3k-5k. While many recommend synthetic is it truly necessary? i have seen some UOA on GM GDI engines using VWB that looked acceptable. But does anyone else use conventional oil in there newer cars? While i understand synthetic is better i just think i would be wasting money changing it out as often as i do. I would think that a conventional oil meeting API spec would provide the same protection for my driving style at 3k-5k as synthetic at the same OCI. Interested to hear opinions and recommendations on this question.

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#4603959 - 12/14/17 10:05 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
dogememe Offline


Registered: 04/15/17
Posts: 712
Loc: SF BAY AREA, CA
Use synthetic, don't change it as often? Seems simple.
_________________________
1997 Suburban 5.7 ~214K Miles, VWB 5W-30, VO-55, Personal.
2007 Crown Vic P71 4.6 ~124K Miles, VAS 5W-30, RP 20-820, Personal.
2010 Escape 2.5 ~75K Miles, VAS 5W-30, Wix 51348, Rented on Turo.

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#4603966 - 12/14/17 10:12 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4628
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
You can get synthetic oil on sale or with mail in rebates on some brands as cheap as the conventional.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4603970 - 12/14/17 10:16 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
jongies3 Offline


Registered: 03/11/16
Posts: 846
Loc: MT
For what it's worth, when I used to work in an lube shop I noticed that the Chevy Traverse models made before the GM Dexos spec came out that ran on regular 5W-30 always had really thick varnish under the oil cap whereas the models that ran Dexos synthetic were always spotless. I know it's just a visual thing, but, I always chalked it up to the synthetic oil working harder to keep those engines cleaner. I think it's because DI engines run much hotter than port or throttle body injection systems do.
_________________________
2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM TG-3600 filter
1996 Ford Contour 2.5 V6 QSGB 5W-30, MC FL-500S filter

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#4603977 - 12/14/17 10:26 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8998
Loc: Southeast Florida
Unless the OEM require a spec only synthetic oils have, you can absolutely use a conventional. There is research that suggests exactly what you're proposing... GrpII oils at shorter intervals = less deposits.


_________________________
17 Sonata Sport 2.4L
NAPA Full Synthetic 5w20 | OEM

13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 | M1-104

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#4603985 - 12/14/17 10:44 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8998
Loc: Southeast Florida
The graph above comes from this report. Its a pdf so i cannot share. But if you want to read it. Look for this title...

_________________________
17 Sonata Sport 2.4L
NAPA Full Synthetic 5w20 | OEM

13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 | M1-104

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#4603994 - 12/14/17 10:56 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 18296
Loc: Dallas,Tx USA
Synthetic oil is only $4-$5 more a jug at Walmart. Use synthetic in your fave brand.
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W30


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#4603995 - 12/14/17 10:58 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
Iowegian Offline


Registered: 01/05/17
Posts: 273
Loc: Iowa
It is a new car with a warranty. Use recommended oil and keep receipts and a log.
If you go with the Cruz (if gasoline), then use Doxos 1, Gen 2 oil only.

I would also keep the oci down to 5k, at least to start with.

Enjoy your new ride, whatever you choose.
_________________________
2011 Equinox, 2.4l
2009 Sienna, 3.5l

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#4604000 - 12/14/17 11:06 PM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3983
Loc: Central Wisconsin
Given your daily use, conventional oil may work fine.
Highway miles are easiest on oil.
Conventional oil is better than it used to be.
If it's SN, it could be close to a blend anyway.
Yes GDI is hara on oil. Turbos are hard on oil,
put the two together and they are REALLY hard on oil so
short OCIs are the norm.
Check the condition of oil when changing and go from there.
A lab test would show you the way if you care to check that out.


My 2
_________________________
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.

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#4604032 - 12/15/17 12:24 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2200
Loc: Malaysia
Go conventional for your applications, and A3B4/A5B5 would further help.

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#4604062 - 12/15/17 01:57 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
JFAllen Offline


Registered: 07/31/16
Posts: 165
Loc: Albury, NSW
Given a long highway commute, I'd be seriously considering a passenger car diesel, where a USDM variant (chev Cruize) or a Euro (VW/AUDI TDi for example)

When looking ate modern small capacity (often turbo) engines, they work the oil harder than engines of yester year. Any (I repeat ANY) petrol engine that comes equiped with a turbocharger requires synthetic engine oil, unless you enjoy changing turbochargers. The temperatures inside turbo bearings is extreme and mineral oils are unable to hold up. This is especially important if you have a non-water cooled turbo and to regular 'hot' shutdowns (I consider a hot shutdown to be turning the engine off while the turbo is glowing red hot.) The oil bakes and turns to coke in the turbo bearing. upon restart the grit damages the bearing. over time it flogs out and $$ begin to leave your pocket.

One other consideration is modern emissions systems. Especially EGR, and DPF's (on diesels.) Both best removed, but your state authority may not view it that way. And of course the humble crank case ventilation system. DI engines are significantly more susceptible to intake valve deposits than traditional port injection engines. Low SAPS synthetics are specifically formulated to leave less deposits. Remember Mineral oils will have a higher NOACK and subsequently higher overall volatility. combined with higher SAPS will definitely increase deposit formation.

This has to do with how the PCV introduces a warm moist (oily) gas mix into the intake post air cleaner, which mixes with the particulate containing EGR. the results of course are intake deposits and with no port injectors keeping the valves clean... Well you can search the internet.


Bottom line: If you buy a 2017/2018 car, it will come with a very specific manufacturer oil specification. That oil specification will almost 100% of the time require a synthetic base oil to meet the specification.

On a personal note: I like to have the best technology working for me. And when it comes to oils that's the latest generation of synthetics. I even run my 1975 Datsun 180b on Synthetics, because why not wink

Jordan

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#4604072 - 12/15/17 03:26 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8998
Loc: Southeast Florida
If you're plan is to go with a GM T-GDi then you'd best be served using a dexos1Gen2 oil as recommended by GM. This spec guards against LSPI and premature timing chain wear. But a synthetic oil is not necessary to gain this latest specification from GM. Quite a few synthetic blends like Pennzoil Gold and Quaker State Synthetic Blend fit the bill.
_________________________
17 Sonata Sport 2.4L
NAPA Full Synthetic 5w20 | OEM

13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 | M1-104

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#4604073 - 12/15/17 03:28 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4432
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Salsashark

I have bought several used cars and trucks with about 100k and drive them to 200k-250k and get another car. This time i am thinking about getting a new 2017 car.... Interested to hear opinions and recommendations on this question.


Opinion: I wouldn't do it. Financially it won't make sense, and new tech is generally a mixed blessing at best.

Recommendation: Don't do it. You have a system that has apparently worked for you. Stick with it.

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#4604075 - 12/15/17 04:15 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7642
Loc: New York
I'm guessing that you (the OP) are mechanically inclined since you buy used cars with 100K and routinely get another 100 to 150K out of them.....if that's the case I would continue doing so as that is the most economical thing to do.
A new car is not a 'good investment'.
_________________________
'Journalism is Dead'

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#4604080 - 12/15/17 04:36 AM Re: Conventional Oil and Direct Injection? thoughts? [Re: Salsashark]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4432
Loc: Taiwan
To take us even further off topic, there will presumably come a time when buying a new petroleum-powered car will start to look risky, because it may not, for environmental or fuel supply reasons, stay viable for its anticipated lifespan.

Probably not there yet, but I'm not sure I'd be able to spot when we were.

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