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44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z #4603932
12/14/17 09:33 PM
12/14/17 09:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
jayg Offline OP
jayg  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
As promised, I just sent off my sample of new old stock 1973 QS Super Blend 10w40 that I have run the last 4.5 years in my 1973 Datsun 240Z. Filter was an STP spin on.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion:

The oil was stored in a cool dark place from 1973 until 2013 in my uncle's vintage oil stash that I became owner of after he sold his house. I then used 5 quarts of the oil from April of 2013 until I changed it in December of 2017. It is 44 year old oil but not the original oil in the sump for that long. I know somebody will ask.

The car has 93k miles and the last oil run was 4.5 years and 1811 miles (mostly hard driving).No make up oil was needed or added. The car sat from 1989 until 2013 when I bought it, revived it and turned it into a track rat.

This oil run was hard use, months of tracking down leaking carbs with leaded fuel half the time, cold starts etc.... I expected extremely high fuel % and while it was high, it's lower than I thought. The carburetors have been properly tuned and synched for a year now so hopefully fuel will drop off slightly. As noted, the lead from the VP racing C16 is washing down in the oil some. I expect that to decrease slightly with me using less leftover race gas and also because of the better tune. Like the old oil, I had a few 30 gallon drums of C16 that I used because....well it was from a past car that I took drag racing and I needed to get rid of it and also because there's no ethanol and it did well being stored in the tank.

Virtually no moly, but high zinc confirmed what I thought might have been the blend in the early 70s.

Also note the TBN of 5.0 left. Even after 4.5 years and 1811 miles of beating on it. With the fuel and moisture issues (if you want to call them that) I have from infrequent use, I'll probably drop to 3 years instead of the 4.5 I had on it. I had the wear average of vehicles with 2000 more miles on the run but i'd be willing to bet most of those weren't at WOT as much as mine. Hey, when you don't get to drive the car that much, make it count when you do.


Cliffnotes: I'm very pleased at the results of a 44 year old stored in a dry dark place. This was an experiment for me to see how it would hold up in a vehicle that is the exact same vintage and I'm not convinced that a similar modern SN dino 10w40 would have done any better in the use it was subjected to. For you people who are afraid to use 6 mos and 1 year old oil.....well I hope that changes your mind.

OIL DOESN'T JUST EXPIRE IF IT IS STORED CORRECTLY

I'm not saying use 44 year oil in your new Volkswagen. What I'm saying is, if it meets the specs needed by your application and is stored properly and unopened, stop being afraid to use it.






From 4/2013 when it first went in while I was getting it running:


From 12/2017 after the oil change:


What did I put in the oil sump afterward?



10w30 Valvoline White Can also from the 70s.



2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel- CP Triton ECT 5w40
2015 Prius C Napa 0w20
1973 240Z 10w30 VWC from '73
1973 Triumph Bonneville 750 M1 5w50
1967 BSA 441 Victor Special M1 5w50




Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4603935
12/14/17 09:39 PM
12/14/17 09:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,393
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,393
Virginia
I believe that you are quite correct in your thoughts here. But wow that a lot of lead. Remember that phrase, "get the lead out"?? Here... You put the lead in smile


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4603938
12/14/17 09:43 PM
12/14/17 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,973
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,973
Illinois
The QS in the caused terrible sludge in my 1964 Valiant. I did 2K OCIs at the time, but after 50K the engine was full of sludge.


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4603943
12/14/17 09:49 PM
12/14/17 09:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,960
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,960
South Florida
Wow that report looks horrendous.


17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 Maxlife Syn 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30


Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: tig1] #4603949
12/14/17 09:55 PM
12/14/17 09:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
redbone3 Offline
redbone3  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
Or, the oil was fine and you had a small leak of coolant getting into the oil.


2014 Passat Wolfsburg, 1995 Miata.
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: bubbatime] #4603953
12/14/17 09:59 PM
12/14/17 09:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
jayg Offline OP
jayg  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Wow that report looks horrendous.


You really think so?

4.5 years on 44 year oil with leaded fuel on carbs that dumped fuel for YEARS? 1811 miles of full on WOT punishment every time I went back to visit family and drive the wheels off the car.

I have perfect oil pressure and the car runs strong. It's a beater to me and if I really cared, I'd put whatever new oil I wanted to in it. For what I do with it, this is lubricating fine , everybody can learn a little something, and I'll still have years of enjoyment out of the car.




Originally Posted By: redbone3
Or, the oil was fine and you had a small leak of coolant getting into the oil.


What from the report makes you think that?


2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel- CP Triton ECT 5w40
2015 Prius C Napa 0w20
1973 240Z 10w30 VWC from '73
1973 Triumph Bonneville 750 M1 5w50
1967 BSA 441 Victor Special M1 5w50




Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4603980
12/14/17 10:29 PM
12/14/17 10:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,409
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,409
Florida
That took balls to use such old Lube. Hard to tell if the extra wear is from the [censored] old oil or old engine. Run some modern oil for comparison.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: Artem] #4603982
12/14/17 10:37 PM
12/14/17 10:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
jayg Offline OP
jayg  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,247
Rabbit Creek, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Artem
That took balls to use such old Lube. Hard to tell if the extra wear is from the [censored] old oil or old engine. Run some modern oil for comparison.


Literally this engine didn't run for 24 years, I broke it free, threw this oil in it and have beat on it for almost 5 years anytime I get a chance to drive it. I honestly can't see how a modern oil would change much from this report. The copper, aluminum, iron numbers being elevated could all be from previous wear, breaking it free.... who knows? A modern oil still would have had plenty of lead from the fuel.....It is what it is.



If it blows up eventually and I actually spend money on it then I might run a modern oil in a new motor. Then again maybe not.

I'm running the ancient Valvoline now. I'm not changing anything up really, I'm just sharing.


2017 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel- CP Triton ECT 5w40
2015 Prius C Napa 0w20
1973 240Z 10w30 VWC from '73
1973 Triumph Bonneville 750 M1 5w50
1967 BSA 441 Victor Special M1 5w50




Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4603998
12/14/17 11:02 PM
12/14/17 11:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 76
Tampa, FL
rummy Offline
rummy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 76
Tampa, FL
Thanks for sharing!


'08 Highlander Sport 3.5L V6
PP 5W-30 & Fram Ultra

'15 Corolla LE
PP 0W-20 & Fram Ultra

Honda EU2000i
Delo 400 SAE 30
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4604009
12/14/17 11:33 PM
12/14/17 11:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,071
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,071
Kalifornia Kollective
Interesting, let's see what the next one shows smile

The copper and some of the lead could be bearing material ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 12/14/17 11:34 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4604033
12/15/17 12:25 AM
12/15/17 12:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,651
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,651
Down Under
Jayg, thank you for doing this, very interesting.

So 1970's 10w40 had about ~1200 ppm zinc and a Ca detergent package. Good to know.

BTW that picture of all the old oil stacked up looks great.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4604054
12/15/17 01:36 AM
12/15/17 01:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 203
Albury, NSW
JFAllen Offline
JFAllen  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 203
Albury, NSW
that's a lot of Lead and Copper crazy

Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4604076
12/15/17 04:26 AM
12/15/17 04:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
incognito_2u Offline
incognito_2u  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 137
Long Island, N.Y.
I love that picture of your "Z"........the one looking from the rear towards the front, low.
I forgot how beautiful the lines of that car were.........more "Italian" than "Japanese".
Enjoy!

Last edited by incognito_2u; 12/15/17 04:30 AM. Reason: spelling

2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -110k (PUP/XG3600)
2006 Toyota Corolla 1.8 VVTi -79k (PPHM/XG4386)
1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -80k (PUP/XG4386)
1998 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -62k (PUP/XG4386)
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: incognito_2u] #4604091
12/15/17 05:15 AM
12/15/17 05:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,651
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,651
Down Under
Originally Posted By: incognito_2u
I love that picture of your "Z"........the one looking from the rear towards the front, low.
I forgot how beautiful the lines of that car were.........more "Italian" than "Japanese".
Enjoy!


Exactly !!! To me the original Z cars have a very Italian look to them.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 44 year oil QS 10w40, 4.5 years 1811 mi, 1973 240Z [Re: jayg] #4604097
12/15/17 05:37 AM
12/15/17 05:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,409
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,409
Florida
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: Artem
That took balls to use such old Lube. Hard to tell if the extra wear is from the [censored] old oil or old engine. Run some modern oil for comparison.


Literally this engine didn't run for 24 years, I broke it free, threw this oil in it and have beat on it for almost 5 years anytime I get a chance to drive it. I honestly can't see how a modern oil would change much from this report. The copper, aluminum, iron numbers being elevated could all be from previous wear, breaking it free.... who knows? A modern oil still would have had plenty of lead from the fuel.....It is what it is.



If it blows up eventually and I actually spend money on it then I might run a modern oil in a new motor. Then again maybe not.

I'm running the ancient Valvoline now. I'm not changing anything up really, I'm just sharing.


I get it. What I don't understand is why you didn't do a few mini flushes to help clean the engjne up internally after sitting for so long and firing it up for the first time in 24 years. I would have ran some short around the block flushes then maybe a 100 miles worth or two AND THEN proceed with your regular daily programming. The way you did it just seems... careless and not BITOGer like.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
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