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0w vs 5w cold weather. #4600454
12/11/17 07:38 AM
12/11/17 07:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Crobinson16 Offline OP
Crobinson16  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
At what temperature would the 0w have better flow vs the 5w, I am a Mobil oil guy and I loved the 0w 40 FS in my vortec series gm motors. but it's a little thicker than I'd like for my new 6.2 silverado possibly, and it's had a very high count of additives which may not be good for a DI and low speed pre ingtion. I've been monitoring the water temp and oil temp and gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s. Factory fill is 0w 20. I feel that's pretty thin for these engine opperating conditions. I've been looking at Mobil 1 5w 30 and the 0w 30 afe . I haven't decided yet on which one of the two or possibly a different Mobil oil selection. Winter temps typically don't go below 0 degrees Fahrenheit.

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600463
12/11/17 07:44 AM
12/11/17 07:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,438
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,438
New England
0WXX is tested for cold cranking at -35C (-31F) and for pumpability at -40C (-40F).
5WXX is tested for cold cranking at -30C (-22F) and for pumpability at -35C (-31F).

I doubt the two are going to be very different at 0F, although I think Shannow has showed some great curves in the past that gave some real numbers for the two across a wide temp range (and were probably killed by the Photobucket change since then).


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600466
12/11/17 07:52 AM
12/11/17 07:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,809
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Online content
FordCapriDriver  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,809
Balearic Islands , Spain
In Pennsylvania a synthetic 5W-XX oil will be perfectly fine.
That silverado only specs 0W-20 because of corporate average fuel economy regulations, 5W-30 will not do any harm to it whasoever.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600480
12/11/17 08:33 AM
12/11/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,332
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,332
Northern Ontario, Canada
What are the recommended viscosities from owners manual? Assumes you want to maintain warranty coverage.


2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Danno] #4600516
12/11/17 09:38 AM
12/11/17 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Crobinson16 Offline OP
Crobinson16  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Originally Posted By: Danno
What are the recommended viscosities from owners manual? Assumes you want to maintain warranty coverage.


Factory recommend oil is Dex1 gen2 in 0w 20, however I didn't list or ask that as a consern as far as warranty coverage, so I would not make that assumption.

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600542
12/11/17 10:21 AM
12/11/17 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,262
PV Az
AZjeff Online content
AZjeff  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,262
PV Az
Does the 6.2 (nice motor BTW) have AFM? Wonder how fussy all that stuff is with thicker oil? These Ecotec3 engines must be designed to run hotter that we're used to, my 4.3 runs 215 and up. Not crazy about seeing the tranny running at 195 and above all the time but the fluid is supposed to be good for it.


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600545
12/11/17 10:24 AM
12/11/17 10:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Crobinson16 Offline OP
Crobinson16  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Yes the new series of gm ecotecs use afm. I don't feel it's an issue or they wouldn't use heavier weight oil in the Corvette with same series of engine, and for track use they spec and even higher weight oil .

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600559
12/11/17 10:38 AM
12/11/17 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,262
PV Az
AZjeff Online content
AZjeff  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,262
PV Az
Interesting GM specs 0w-20 in the V8 trucks but 5w-30 in the V6.


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600629
12/11/17 11:44 AM
12/11/17 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,174
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
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Posts: 7,174
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Crobinson16
gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s.


I don't know about GM engines...

but both of my Ford tow rigs always run cooler oil temps than coolant temps
under "Normal" (no load driving)
and WAY hotter oil temps when towing.

You are only guessing at oil temps until you come up with a way to actually monitor/verify it.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Linctex] #4600667
12/11/17 12:48 PM
12/11/17 12:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,438
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,438
New England
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Crobinson16
gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s.

I don't know about GM engines...

but both of my Ford tow rigs always run cooler oil temps than coolant temps
under "Normal" (no load driving)
and WAY hotter oil temps when towing.

You are only guessing at oil temps until you come up with a way to actually monitor/verify it.


It's not an option on your MFD?
I keep mine up almost all the time.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600689
12/11/17 01:15 PM
12/11/17 01:15 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
If winter temps stay above 0F, the 5w-xx grade will be fine. If you can't spin the motor quickly at those temps with that winter grade, you need to perform some battery/starter maintenance.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600743
12/11/17 01:59 PM
12/11/17 01:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,124
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,124
pa
here in PA i use 10-30 group III oils mostly, no starting issues + better protection than the thinner xxW-20 when hot oils!!! on that note its known that any oil except real synthetic group IV PAO + group V ester + other oils continue to thin after the advertised viscosity tested @ 212F, + actually are thinner in hotter areas of an engine on a regular basis!!

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: benjy] #4600750
12/11/17 02:01 PM
12/11/17 02:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,326
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,326
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: benjy
here in PA i use 10-30 group III oils mostly, no starting issues + better protection than the thinner xxW-20 when hot oils!!! on that note its known that any oil except real synthetic group IV PAO + group V ester + other oils continue to thin after the advertised viscosity tested @ 212F, + actually are thinner in hotter areas of an engine on a regular basis!!

Uhh, all oils continue to thin as the temperature is increased.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4600759
12/11/17 02:20 PM
12/11/17 02:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,571
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,571
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I doubt the two are going to be very different at 0F, although I think Shannow has showed some great curves in the past that gave some real numbers for the two across a wide temp range (and were probably killed by the Photobucket change since then).


I've found a new set, and will try to get some off photobucket when I've got time...



This one was good, in that it showed how a bunch of different oils thickened with the cold, affecting delivery times.

Plus had a regression equation for that particular engine in the test cell.



Points of note is that the regression equations are on the crazy end, the cold pumping end, so their absolute use in the freezing and above range aren't there.

Note also, it's in whole poise, not Centipoise.

So take M1 0W40 and M1 5W30 at 0C (I'll just use Cst=Cp, it's close enough).
5.62P versus 6.33P - Delta = 0.71

Delta ROAT - 0.072*0.71 = 0.05sec
Delta 3bar - 0.062*0.71 = 0.04sec

Like I said, the formulae are around the actual measurable part of the curve...in the flat part, there's no difference with a PD pump.


For the cold end, note that J300 MRV (flow to the pickup is about 600P depending on grade), and that MRV halves with every 5C temperature increase roughly.

Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16] #4600783
12/11/17 02:47 PM
12/11/17 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Crobinson16 Offline OP
Crobinson16  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 113
PENNSYLVANIA
Shannow, Thank you that was a useful post.

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