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#4600454 - 12/11/17 07:38 AM 0w vs 5w cold weather.
Crobinson16 Offline


Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 63
Loc: PENNSYLVANIA
At what temperature would the 0w have better flow vs the 5w, I am a Mobil oil guy and I loved the 0w 40 FS in my vortec series gm motors. but it's a little thicker than I'd like for my new 6.2 silverado possibly, and it's had a very high count of additives which may not be good for a DI and low speed pre ingtion. I've been monitoring the water temp and oil temp and gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s. Factory fill is 0w 20. I feel that's pretty thin for these engine opperating conditions. I've been looking at Mobil 1 5w 30 and the 0w 30 afe . I haven't decided yet on which one of the two or possibly a different Mobil oil selection. Winter temps typically don't go below 0 degrees Fahrenheit.

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#4600463 - 12/11/17 07:44 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3965
Loc: New England
0WXX is tested for cold cranking at -35C (-31F) and for pumpability at -40C (-40F).
5WXX is tested for cold cranking at -30C (-22F) and for pumpability at -35C (-31F).

I doubt the two are going to be very different at 0F, although I think Shannow has showed some great curves in the past that gave some real numbers for the two across a wide temp range (and were probably killed by the Photobucket change since then).
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4600466 - 12/11/17 07:52 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
FordCapriDriver Offline


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2376
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
In Pennsylvania a synthetic 5W-XX oil will be perfectly fine.
That silverado only specs 0W-20 because of corporate average fuel economy regulations, 5W-30 will not do any harm to it whasoever.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
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#4600480 - 12/11/17 08:33 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1987
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
What are the recommended viscosities from owners manual? Assumes you want to maintain warranty coverage.
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2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
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#4600516 - 12/11/17 09:38 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Danno]
Crobinson16 Offline


Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 63
Loc: PENNSYLVANIA
Originally Posted By: Danno
What are the recommended viscosities from owners manual? Assumes you want to maintain warranty coverage.


Factory recommend oil is Dex1 gen2 in 0w 20, however I didn't list or ask that as a consern as far as warranty coverage, so I would not make that assumption.

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#4600542 - 12/11/17 10:21 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
AZjeff Offline


Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 2629
Loc: PV Az
Does the 6.2 (nice motor BTW) have AFM? Wonder how fussy all that stuff is with thicker oil? These Ecotec3 engines must be designed to run hotter that we're used to, my 4.3 runs 215 and up. Not crazy about seeing the tranny running at 195 and above all the time but the fluid is supposed to be good for it.
_________________________
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14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP *gasp*
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#4600545 - 12/11/17 10:24 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Crobinson16 Offline


Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 63
Loc: PENNSYLVANIA
Yes the new series of gm ecotecs use afm. I don't feel it's an issue or they wouldn't use heavier weight oil in the Corvette with same series of engine, and for track use they spec and even higher weight oil .

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#4600559 - 12/11/17 10:38 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
AZjeff Offline


Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 2629
Loc: PV Az
Interesting GM specs 0w-20 in the V8 trucks but 5w-30 in the V6.
_________________________
86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP *gasp*
16 Silverado 1500 4.3 Ecotec3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

Why know when you can guess?!


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#4600629 - 12/11/17 11:44 AM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Crobinson16
gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s.


I don't know about GM engines...

but both of my Ford tow rigs always run cooler oil temps than coolant temps
under "Normal" (no load driving)
and WAY hotter oil temps when towing.

You are only guessing at oil temps until you come up with a way to actually monitor/verify it.
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#4600667 - 12/11/17 12:48 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Linctex]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3965
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Crobinson16
gm is running these motors hotter than id perfer, water temps of 215 normal driving and 230 at times of hard acceleration. Pulling a trailer id imagine is even higher. That puts oil temps in the 230s.

I don't know about GM engines...

but both of my Ford tow rigs always run cooler oil temps than coolant temps
under "Normal" (no load driving)
and WAY hotter oil temps when towing.

You are only guessing at oil temps until you come up with a way to actually monitor/verify it.


It's not an option on your MFD?
I keep mine up almost all the time.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4600689 - 12/11/17 01:15 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1810
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
If winter temps stay above 0F, the 5w-xx grade will be fine. If you can't spin the motor quickly at those temps with that winter grade, you need to perform some battery/starter maintenance.
_________________________
'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]

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#4600743 - 12/11/17 01:59 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
benjy Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 865
Loc: pa
here in PA i use 10-30 group III oils mostly, no starting issues + better protection than the thinner xxW-20 when hot oils!!! on that note its known that any oil except real synthetic group IV PAO + group V ester + other oils continue to thin after the advertised viscosity tested @ 212F, + actually are thinner in hotter areas of an engine on a regular basis!!

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#4600750 - 12/11/17 02:01 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: benjy]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9369
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: benjy
here in PA i use 10-30 group III oils mostly, no starting issues + better protection than the thinner xxW-20 when hot oils!!! on that note its known that any oil except real synthetic group IV PAO + group V ester + other oils continue to thin after the advertised viscosity tested @ 212F, + actually are thinner in hotter areas of an engine on a regular basis!!

Uhh, all oils continue to thin as the temperature is increased.
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#4600759 - 12/11/17 02:20 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Virtus_Probi]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39820
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I doubt the two are going to be very different at 0F, although I think Shannow has showed some great curves in the past that gave some real numbers for the two across a wide temp range (and were probably killed by the Photobucket change since then).


I've found a new set, and will try to get some off photobucket when I've got time...



This one was good, in that it showed how a bunch of different oils thickened with the cold, affecting delivery times.

Plus had a regression equation for that particular engine in the test cell.



Points of note is that the regression equations are on the crazy end, the cold pumping end, so their absolute use in the freezing and above range aren't there.

Note also, it's in whole poise, not Centipoise.

So take M1 0W40 and M1 5W30 at 0C (I'll just use Cst=Cp, it's close enough).
5.62P versus 6.33P - Delta = 0.71

Delta ROAT - 0.072*0.71 = 0.05sec
Delta 3bar - 0.062*0.71 = 0.04sec

Like I said, the formulae are around the actual measurable part of the curve...in the flat part, there's no difference with a PD pump.


For the cold end, note that J300 MRV (flow to the pickup is about 600P depending on grade), and that MRV halves with every 5C temperature increase roughly.

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#4600783 - 12/11/17 02:47 PM Re: 0w vs 5w cold weather. [Re: Crobinson16]
Crobinson16 Offline


Registered: 06/28/16
Posts: 63
Loc: PENNSYLVANIA
Shannow, Thank you that was a useful post.

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