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EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars #4598929
12/09/17 12:41 PM
12/09/17 12:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
Bjornviken Offline OP
Bjornviken  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
EU is trying to ban diesel and petrol cars in the near future .Do you guys think oil corporations will let it happen?

Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4598936
12/09/17 12:46 PM
12/09/17 12:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,892
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,892
NE,Ohio
what is near future 2040?


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4598966
12/09/17 01:25 PM
12/09/17 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,898
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,898
MA, Mittelfranken.de
With battery and electricity generation technology moving at the rate it is why not? The electric motor has it all over internal combustion engines in every way.
I remember the days when many American car buyers wouldn't buy anything with less than 350 CI and declared anything with 4 or 6 cyl as gutless wonders, that changed in a very short time.

Once consumers get use to instant acceleration, no pollution from a tail pipe, no noise, no vibration, an ultra quiet cabin no OCI and other common maintenance items they will quickly abandon the internal combustion engine. As long as the range is good and recharge times are short I for one am all in.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Trav] #4598974
12/09/17 01:38 PM
12/09/17 01:38 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
True! Unfortunately the U.S. has 99 nuclear reactors in 30 states. I could be mistaken, but nuclear reactors will recharge the engines. Not sure if that's good or bad. We definitely need more alternative sources of energy. I live in New Mexico. Waste Isolation Power Plant (WIPP) in Carlsbad, NM They store the spent fuel from nuclear material in the salt mines. There has already been one leak. Don't mean to get off topic.

WIPP

Fossil fuels are limited and antiquated. So is the combustion engine...........




Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4598976
12/09/17 01:39 PM
12/09/17 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 169
AZ
ron17571 Offline
ron17571  Offline
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 169
AZ
Government telling people what to do in Europe. Imagine that.the whole thinking about electric cars.The batteries need to be charged by? The electric grid is already overloaded.I have driven different generation Prius.They are fine for a small car.Roomy and are very reliable.The batteries don't work as good in the winter.


2003 Dodge Caravan 140.000 miles
1992 Ford f-250 217,000 miles
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Trav] #4599015
12/09/17 02:26 PM
12/09/17 02:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,106
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Online content
Danno  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,106
Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Trav
With battery and electricity generation technology moving at the rate it is why not? The electric motor has it all over internal combustion engines in every way.
I remember the days when many American car buyers wouldn't buy anything with less than 350 CI and declared anything with 4 or 6 cyl as gutless wonders, that changed in a very short time.

Once consumers get use to instant acceleration, no pollution from a tail pipe, no noise, no vibration, an ultra quiet cabin no OCI and other common maintenance items they will quickly abandon the internal combustion engine. As long as the range is good and recharge times are short I for one am all in.

Recent article placed annual Tesla maintenance at $2000. Probably would be lower for a mass produced EV.
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/12/analyst-claims-it-costs-over-2000-year.html

The big watch-out is that our electrical grid cannot handle mass vehicle charging.
Oil filed development, refineries, pipelines, fuel stations were funded by drivers paying cost of fuel, which funded the infrastructure builds. The public contribution was allowed fuel companies to deduct expenses against their income, just like any other corporation.

Electrical grid is a whole other problem. I can see the government having to step in, but with public and consumer finances being in terrible shape, I don't see the finance part.
Unless the gov't puts their thumb on the free market scale, which is entirely possible.

Note: I am also assuming battery technology will improve to the point it is close to gasoline in convenience and pricing when used in an auto environment. Admittedly a big assumption.


2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4599027
12/09/17 02:47 PM
12/09/17 02:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,962
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,962
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Battery tech still has a long way to go yet-Tesla has some decent ideas, but the big $ is still out of reach. But by 2040, who knows?


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4599035
12/09/17 02:58 PM
12/09/17 02:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
Bjornviken Offline OP
Bjornviken  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
Well first they gonna rise the taxes and force people to buy [censored] EV cars. Then evrybody who drives ev most have a gps sending unit and pay for evry km they drive.
Against human rights! Well they plan this for the future 2025-2040. HOPE THEY FAIL.
And this is thanks to VW dieselgate. And yes they should ban EU.

Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4599046
12/09/17 03:17 PM
12/09/17 03:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,386
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,386
KY
I really enjoy driving my wife's i3, but I don't think EVs will really catch on in the US until they have a range of at least 300 miles, a charging time of under 15 minutes, and a sufficient charging infrastructure to support them.


Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Bjornviken] #4599048
12/09/17 03:17 PM
12/09/17 03:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,208
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,208
Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
EU is trying to ban diesel and petrol cars in the near future .Do you guys think oil corporations will let it happen?


Yep they don't care their will be public transportation and they'll just double or triple the cost of their products.


2004 Corolla 124686
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Pajero] #4599060
12/09/17 03:28 PM
12/09/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,898
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,898
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Pajero
True! Unfortunately the U.S. has 99 nuclear reactors in 30 states. I could be mistaken, but nuclear reactors will recharge the engines. Not sure if that's good or bad. We definitely need more alternative sources of energy. I live in New Mexico. Waste Isolation Power Plant (WIPP) in Carlsbad, NM They store the spent fuel from nuclear material in the salt mines. There has already been one leak. Don't mean to get off topic.

WIPP

Fossil fuels are limited and antiquated. So is the combustion engine...........




Respectfully,

Pajero!


Don't get me wrong I will probably never see it in my lifetime and with the third world infrastructure in many places its doubtful they could implement a wide scale grid reliable enough in the next 100 years but the writing is on the wall.
I agree with the argument that right now its just moving pollution from one place to another and the grid cant handle it but that wont always be the case.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: MCompact] #4599061
12/09/17 03:28 PM
12/09/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,025
Middlesex County CT
simple_gifts Offline
simple_gifts  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,025
Middlesex County CT
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I really enjoy driving my wife's i3, but I don't think EVs will really catch on in the US until they have a range of at least 300 miles, a charging time of under 15 minutes, and a sufficient charging infrastructure to support them.


An alternate approach is to have a rapid battery swap as part of the EV design; mfg would be smart to standardize form factor to aid in adoption; pull into a station and swap it out; A lot like propane cylinders


2004 Prius; 97K ML Syn 5W-30
2007 Yaris 71K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;130K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: MCompact] #4599074
12/09/17 03:39 PM
12/09/17 03:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Rock_Hudstone Offline
Rock_Hudstone  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I really enjoy driving my wife's i3, but I don't think EVs will really catch on in the US until they have a range of at least 300 miles, a charging time of under 15 minutes, and a sufficient charging infrastructure to support them.


In other words, it ain't gonna happen without even more massive government intervention in the market.

Take away the current government subsidies and EV sales evaporate overnight.

Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: Trav] #4599077
12/09/17 03:42 PM
12/09/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,351
toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,351
toronto
Originally Posted By: Trav
As long as the range is good and recharge times are short I for one am all in.

Of course, but unfortunately they're not so we're back full circle.
The thing with electric vehicles is they'd be the best idea, if serious development started on energy storage solutions and distribution 70 years ago. As it stands now, the hype and misguided "want" just distract people from basic, glaring downsides that we generally haven't thought much about yet. First of all, the electricity sector is very politically corrupt. Secondly, the grid is already allegedly 'over taxed', whether this is actually true or just supporting fodder for political and economic moves is still unclear. 95% of our motoring fuel comes from chemicals in the ground, the grid hasn't even begun to notice the EV load on it yet, it's already struggling to meet peak demands. What do the EV hype-people think is going to happen if, tomorrow, "the ICE dies out like the antiquated dinosaur it is" and all motorists suddenly need to suckle big amps off an already dodgy grid? Think about it, that's an enormous amount of chemical energy demand migrating over to a network of wire conductors.. where transmission/transforming inefficiencies WILL ONLY INCREASE with the massive increase in demand. We can ration, moderate and pre-meditate charging schemes but that doesn't change the fact that every single amp demanded still needs to reach it's destination. EV hypesters (and EU politicians) would never think about battery chemistry, charging losses, transmission losses, they'd rather freak out about plant-fertilizer emissions from Volkswagens, because of the sensational news they're fed.

Next there are the vehicles themselves. Battery energy density is [censored], absolute [censored] compared to petrochemicals- EVs are always much heavier relative to an equivalent ICE powered unit. Batteries aren't made from tofu and recycled paper either...... and of course the vehicles will need to operate in high and low temperature conditions. Air conditioning and heat derived from motor pumps and resistive elements in EV vehicles just destroys an already paltry range, and less range means more recharging, and recharging takes a stupid amount of time. ICE (combined cycle) efficiency only increases in frigid climates where a good portion of the 'unproductive' heat is simply diverted to the cabin, and refuelling takes a couple of minutes rather that hanging around for half-hour at least to obtain enough range for the return trip. Also, your EV becomes either a short term back-up electric supply or a paper-weight during extended power outages, which should only logically increase if grid demand is too high.

"He may be rolling in a 0-60-in-3-seconds, 100K Tesla EV, but he's still colder than I am in the winter." is my immediate rationale right now. It's easy to cling to perfect ideologies when one pushes the practical problems just out of the realm of one's cognition..

Re: EU is trying to ban Diesel and petrol cars [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4599078
12/09/17 03:42 PM
12/09/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
Bjornviken Offline OP
Bjornviken  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 315
Finland
Triple what when all the public transportations is electric?

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