Removal of diesel emissions

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Read on here some of the talk of removing diesel exhaust emission and the legality of it.

It is my understand that it is illegal in all 50 states. The fact that one removes it doesn't mean it is legal but yet I read that others understand it to be "allowed". How is that so?

I know from 2007 and up diesel's have emissions installed and yet you see these vehicles "rolling coal".

Shouldn't this be enforced the same as emissions on gas engines?

To me, if you want to clean up the environment, stop producing [censored] fuel. This would seriously help with pollution if you as me. Just like E85. It burns way cleaner. My black sooty tailpipes are no longer black and sooty once I started running E85.

It is my understanding that our diesel is [censored] compared to Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Just thinking out loud.
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If it's illegal but never enforced, that's how it's "allowed," really. Here, in this province, it's technically illegal as well, but there isn't even emissions testing on gasoline cars, so none of that ever gets caught.
 
Most states don't have emissions testing, so how would they be caught?

Our diesel fuel is far cleaner than that in Europe - far less sulfur allowed and we have more restrictive emissions on diesels.

Hence the plethora of diesel cars over there that cannot be sold here and the amount of restrictive equipment on diesel vehicles here that you're talking about.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
If it's illegal but never enforced, that's how it's "allowed," really.


Yup, many people delete the emissions on their diesel trucks because the laws are not enforced. I know as of a few years ago in CT, as long as the truck didn't blow smoke at idle it was legal. My friend had a heavily modified diesel pickup truck, with everything deleted, and he easily passed. As he drove out of the emissions place he pressed a button on his tuner and blew smoke down the whole road.

That means something is wrong with the emissions laws and the process involved with following them.
 
The emission equipment is a federal requirement. Once the vehicle is sold it is really up to the states to decide if they want to enforce anything. Places like California do (the whole system has to be there and intact). Some states have a basic opacity standard to prevent coal rollers and others don't bother at all.

US diesel generally has a lower cetane rating than Euro diesel...but more cetane does not always equal a cleaner burn. Cetane is a measure of how easily diesel fuel ignites. Cetane for sure helps with start up emissions..but if the engine is designed to run on 40 cetane...running it on 50 cetane does not mean it will run any cleaner or better. Some of the owners Euro light duty diesels in cars will swear that if they don't run additives to boost cetane their cars run like [censored]. Bio diesel..which everyone seems to love to hate...increases cetane and lubricity quite nicely. In my high mileage units we have run with and without additives and see virtually no difference in mileage. Never enough to cover the additive cost. Older IDI diesels will generally benefit from increased cetane..like old MB cars or GM and Ford pickups with the old 6.2/6.5 and 6.9 engines.
 
It's one of those illegal things that's not really enforced too heavily. Similar to how aftermarket exhausts are often illegal in many locations but people run them no problem because it's not enforced.
 
To me if a state wants to make some money then they should start enforcing emission laws on diesels. I know here in NC there is a place that gets brand new diesel trucks that the owner brings to them right from the dealership to have all the emissions removed. NC could rake in the $$ in fines.
 
I hope you are storing the parts you remove and jotting down how they all fit together. A state could always decide to enforce what is required to be there.

My 2015 has many sensors along the whole exhaust. If they detect something wrong the truck runs at a max of 20 MPH. So as the years go one, it gets tougher.
 
Like garak said, up here in Saskathcewan it is illegal but not enforced. It maybe to some degree in commercial trucks but I doubt very much of that goes one. Our Premier stated at one point we will not be enforcing it.

The real issue I see and what keeps me from deleting is warranty. Dealers can be d1nky and deny engine, trans, powertrain warranty if the ECM has been messed with. Even if the dealer (some of them in these parts don't care much about deletes and will actually do them in their dealership) the parent company can request the ECM to be sent to them or come out to scan it themselves. Its a fine line that I am not ready to walk just yet.

A friend of mine who runs a 2013 F250 Powerstroke ran into emissions problems when on a family trip. N0x sensor was out of wack. 1300$ for the sensor at the nearest dealer plus labour oh and the wait time was more than he could afford. He knew a few locals that did his delete, straight pipe, tune and exhaust brake for just north of 2000$. He is more than happy. More power, less fuel consumption.
 
It really drives me nuts how over the top the diesel emissions regulations have become over the past several years.
It's pretty bad when the cars sold to the tree huggers of Europe are now considered to "dirty" for the US.

In the mean while, the very efficient diesel engine technology is being tamped out.

So VW can't sell a car that gets almost 50mpg, because their NOx levels are higher than EPA standards, but cleaner less fuel efficient cars are ok?

I think there might need to be a trade of for saving fuel and resources vs slightly higher emissions.

I'm all for clean air, but realistically, diesel cars and pickups are such a small percentage of the motors on the road, you could ban them all tomorrow an there would be no real world change in the cleanliness of the air in most areas.
 
Rolling coal isn't about saving money. It's about peacock-ing and blowing every last dollar from one's paycheck on "male jewelry". A sign the economy is doing just fine. What's stupid is how conforming to the same ideal everyone is. There's little mechanical intelligence in bolting on (off?) a few parts and flashing a tune and doesn't demonstrate any particular skillset.
 
Agree with you there.
You see these guys in a lifted truck, rolling coal out of a smoke stack bigger than any 18 wheeler would need.
Usually with big tow mirrors folded all the way out with no trailer and nothing even in the bed.
Overcompensation much?
 
So I don't approve of rolling coal. Clean air and all that. However I watch a YouTube video of guys rolling coal on a bunch of protesters, and I have to say, it made me laugh
 
All the modern emissions stuff on diesels these day is not good for the diesel engine. A large majority of people delete the emissions stuff so their truck will last like they should.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
That means something is wrong with the emissions laws and the process involved with following them.

Without getting political, it's just a legal hodgepodge. That's the biggest problem. As PiperOne indicates, if it's federal regulations but it's left up to the provinces or states to enforce, you're going to find some states and provinces doing it, and others not doing it.

The size of the cities in this province and the low population densities have meant that emissions enforcement has never become a priority. If we didn't have smog in the heydey of poor vehicle emissions, we're not going to have it now. Further, most diesels aren't smoking that bad. There are a couple jerks, but that used to be the "norm" for diesels years back.

As far as I know, the extent of our emissions enforcement in Saskatchewan is when a light vehicle mechanical is done on a vehicle (first time licensing from out of province when not new, or after a total loss), if the check engine light isn't on, the emissions system is sufficient. They might look to see if the cat is still there, too.
 
Originally Posted By: cronk
So VW can't sell a car that gets almost 50mpg, because their NOx levels are higher than EPA standards, but cleaner less fuel efficient cars are ok?

I think there might need to be a trade of for saving fuel and resources vs slightly higher emissions.


There already is.

Light-duty emissions standards are regulated in grams-per-mile. Burning less fuel-per-mile make less pollutants-per-mile. This makes meeting emissions requirements much easier with a highly fuel efficient engine.

Basically, in a 1.6L diesel Chevrolet Cruze, it is much easier meet Bin 5 NOX requirements than in a 6.6L Duramax in a Silverado simply because it burns less fuel.

Using a pollutant-per-mile standard, the regulations naturally reward engines making better fuel economy.

This really makes VW's cheating all the more egregious.
 
There is a lot more going on behind deletes:

1. Awful fuel economy

My auto RAM went from a 13 MPG truck to a solid 22 MPG truck just by pulling the EGR. Deleting entirely has kept it at 22, but with a butt load more power. I just made 23 MPG on the highway towing a 5500 lb. boat.

2. Durability

Look in the Diesel UOA forum, and you'll see the high fuel dilution that comes into play from those DPF regenerations. Is fuel dilution good for an engine? No.

Soot loading from eating it's own exhaust is not either.

3. OEM just can't figure it out

I've helped a friend of mine delete two of his fleet trucks. Why? He spent $90,000 each, and his trucks kept shutting down over phantom DPF and DEF issues. He proceeded to spend another $16,000 paying the dealer to address these issues. They gave up on him and told him to try spending another $11,000 on each truck to try and fix the issues. A total of 9 repairs had already been done. On every occasion, the trucks went about 50 miles and got locked into limp mode.

Faced with the choice of either throwing $180,000 of equipment in the garbage or doing deletes, he made the only choice he had in order to keep his business going and not end up living on the street. He deleted.

If you Google this problem, it happens with Ford, GM, and Ram. Codes start, limp home comes in, and all the kings men can't put it back together again.

People do not realize how many deleted trucks are out there, because 90% of the delete tunes are not "smoke tunes". Smoke tunes do the same thing as a DPF: Throw your money into the garbage by wasting fuel. The majority deletes want the best fuel economy possible. The most powerful tunes make the least smoke.

Stage 2 (tow tune) engaged, and my truck throws a little smoke under WOT (still less than stock). Stage 4 (+175 HP) and there isn't anything to be seen at all. Not even with high beams on my tail at night.


I would absolutely love to have an emissions system that works and is durable. I use emissions for as long as it's willing to work. If it has a serious and expensive problem, it's gone.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Most states don't have emissions testing, so how would they be caught?

Our diesel fuel is far cleaner than that in Europe - far less sulfur allowed and we have more restrictive emissions on diesels.

Hence the plethora of diesel cars over there that cannot be sold here and the amount of restrictive equipment on diesel vehicles here that you're talking about.


You sure of that? Euro V and VI are 10ppm S, while our ULSD is 15ppm S.

We sell our souls over NOx due to CA. Europe doesn't so much, though IIRC euro VI focuses on emission reduction for NOx.

The lack of diesels is like the lack of MT in NA - lazy, uninformed consumers.
 
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