2005 Acura TL - Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 - 14,500 miles

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This car is gently driven, but 80% city. 142,000 miles. 14,500 miles interval, zero make-up oil added.

This uoa should be a cautionary tale regarding only the use of TBN and also blackstone's arbitrary 1.0 condemnation point. TBN only indicates the oil's potential to neutralize acids. Acid number is what quantifies the actual acid buildup which is what it's all about.

The starting oxidation number for M1 is pretty high so this can't be used at face value. And XOM says to use TAN rather than Oxidation for synthetic oils (for their products at least).

TBN vs. TAN threshold, there doesn't seem to be clear consensus. Polaris/Oil Analyzers say 65% TBN depletion or 2x starting TAN or 23 + starting oxidation. Cummins says TBN TAN. I've seen other sources say starting TAN + 3.

Starting TBN of this oil is 8-9. I've seen TAN of 2.5 (from Blackstone but I don't fully trust their testing accuracy), but the TAN was 1.7 on one of my previous uoa's.

In any case, I'll probably send a reference sample for VOA before the next UOA on this car. Viscosity is still under control so it's not at a critical level, but copper is slightly elevated. I will probably back it off to 13k miles next time.

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The only source of copper in an Acura motor is from the engine bearings, as far as I know. And that is not till you have worn through the first layer of the bearings. Any knocking noises?
 
Copper is under the lead layer in the bearings. Copper is also present in brass and bronze parts like rocker arm and wrist pin bushings.

It is not a very high level, just indicating some corrosion from elsewhere, indicating the TAN level.
 
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The viscosity starts off at 8.6cSt and it ended up at 8.9cSt. Oxidation has been kept in check and the overall report is very good.
 
“Gentle” or not 14.5K with a high percentage of city driving is a workout for the oil …
Do you clear and reset the OLM … curios about when it was out of percent?

I’d go 12k … 13k will cause a black cat to cross the road in front of you and then …
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
“Gentle” or not 14.5K with a high percentage of city driving is a workout for the oil …
Do you clear and reset the OLM … curios about when it was out of percent?

I’d go 12k … 13k will cause a black cat to cross the road in front of you and then …


OLM went to 0% at around 7000 miles into the oci, but it is's also calibrated to for dino.
 
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Only question to this is TBN being 1.95 and TAN being almost 6. That is almost 3 times TAN vs TBN. That seems a bit to high for TAN to be at. I have seen TAN was 2 times as high as TBN and that in some cases was thought of has still serviceable oil. Three times as high seems possibly a step too far?? Or maybe it isn't??
 
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Well... "technically" the oil could have made it to its rated 15,000 mile mark and "technically" the engine didn't blow up. Congrats. You could definitely keep this up and milk the engine to 200,000 miles before things start going downhill and performance declines (in my opinion.)
 
Oil has been badly overran. "gentle" and "city driving", i think, cannot be used in the same sentence. I'd cut OCI in a half
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Well... "technically" the oil could have made it to its rated 15,000 mile mark and "technically" the engine didn't blow up. Congrats. You could definitely keep this up and milk the engine to 200,000 miles before things start going downhill and performance declines (in my opinion.)


How do you know that performance will decline after 200,000K?
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Oil has been badly overran. "gentle" and "city driving", i think, cannot be used in the same sentence. I'd cut OCI in a half


Why cut the OCI in half.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Artem
Well... "technically" the oil could have made it to its rated 15,000 mile mark and "technically" the engine didn't blow up. Congrats. You could definitely keep this up and milk the engine to 200,000 miles before things start going downhill and performance declines (in my opinion.)


How do you know that performance will decline after 200,000K?


Because if he continues to run the oil for the rated 15k miles, I suspect that engine internals will begin to suffer and show signs of wear from the extended drain intervals and high TAN related side effects.

By performance declining, I mean, there's no way this engine will produce the factory rated HP on these intervals vs one driven identically with say... 10k OCI for comparison of Lube related engine wear.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Artem
Well... "technically" the oil could have made it to its rated 15,000 mile mark and "technically" the engine didn't blow up. Congrats. You could definitely keep this up and milk the engine to 200,000 miles before things start going downhill and performance declines (in my opinion.)


How do you know that performance will decline after 200,000K?


Because if he continues to run the oil for the rated 15k miles, I suspect that engine internals will begin to suffer and show signs of wear from the extended drain intervals and high TAN related side effects.

By performance declining, I mean, there's no way this engine will produce the factory rated HP on these intervals vs one driven identically with say... 10k OCI for comparison of Lube related engine wear.


I believe that is pure speculation not based on fact. Personally I know a person that changed reg M1 oils at 15-25K and their engine performed very well with no sign of engine wear. Just sayin.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
OLM went to 0% at around 7000 miles into the oci, but it is's also calibrated to for dino.


Acura has a full syn oil and a syn-blend oil. So I would say the MM is designed to run on syn-blend oil not conventional. Here is a link to the oil:

http://acura.bernardiparts.com/Acura-Motor-Oils-Synthetic-Blend__08798-90XX.aspx


This is a 12 year old car and the manual calls for any 5W-20.

Originally Posted By: tig1


I believe that is pure speculation not based on fact. Personally I know a person that changed reg M1 oils at 15-25K and their engine performed very well with no sign of engine wear. Just sayin.

15k OCI is borderline or too long with primarily city driving, even for EP. The proof is in the uoa.

With a 12k oci next time, if the copper is much lower with a much lower TAN, it will be confirmation that there was corrosive wear with the 15k interval.
 
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At worst, it did a decent job of holding up. I agree that it does raise the question of what the appropriate condemnation limits should be. It would be interesting next time to collect some of the used oil and heat it up in a container with a penny in it to see what it does to the copper. I’d love to see how the Annual Protection version would hold up in the same driving/weather conditions and OCI.
 
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