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#4598115 - 12/08/17 01:52 PM passports and domestic flights
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
This is an offshoot of the National Reciprocity thread...the states whose IDs don't pass muster are going to put fathers who owe child support in a bind. If someone owes pastdue child support, they can be denied a passport. So, there are residents of several states who will basically be prohibited from flying, even domestically. In my case, I have paid over $250K in child support, and was $3000 in arrears...it just accumulated over 15 years. At any rate, I was denied a passport until I had a ZERO balance, and it still took 90 days to get clearance.

In my case, I wanted to go to Cancun, so it was strictly a leisure trip, but what if someone lived in one of the noncompliant states and needed to travel domestically for work??? They had best get paid-up, in a hurry.

In a perfect world nobody would ever be pastdue, but it happens and it seems draconian to make those folks unable to board a commercial plane.
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#4598119 - 12/08/17 01:54 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24733
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Here, if you're late, they'll yank your driver's license and seize your vehicle if you're driving it. Domestic travel for work is the least of their concern.
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#4598126 - 12/08/17 02:01 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8609
Loc: Virginia Beach
You're conflating several issues.

You need ID that meets federal guidelines - "Real ID". Not every state driver's license meets those guidelines (Google for details on what Real ID means).

If you're going to board an airplane, you'll need "Real ID". It can be a passport, it can be a military ID, it can be a state driver's license, but it must be "Real ID".

If that airplane is flying to another country, you'll need a passport to enter that country. When you return from another country, you'll need a passport.

Nowhere on the passport application is there a discussion of your child support status - that's up to your state when they issue a DL.

You'll need ID to get a passport, but you don't have to have a driver's license to get a passport.
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#4598132 - 12/08/17 02:10 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
States report to the Dept of State and make you ineligible for "passport services" if there is a balance reported. The driver's license is not necessarily affected. In my case, I'd have to be SERIOUSLY in arrears, like $10K + before it affected my DL or professional license(s) but hitting the $2500 threshold made me ineligible for a passport. The state had to send a clearance letter to State Dept, which took an eternity, before they would process the passport.

So, for the states whose IDs won't be considered real, a passport is the most likely ID to be used, and that can't be obtained in some cases due to the arrearage owed at a state level.
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#4598134 - 12/08/17 02:11 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: Astro14]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35968
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Nowhere on the passport application is there a discussion of your child support status - that's up to your state when they issue a DL.


https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/legal-matters/child-support.html

Quote:
If you owe $2,500 or more in child support, you are not eligible to receive a U.S. passport.
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#4598136 - 12/08/17 02:13 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
From US Dept of Health & Human Services:
The Passport Denial Program, which is part of the Federal Offset Program, is designed to help states enforce delinquent child support obligations. Under the program, noncustodial parents certified by a state as having arrearages exceeding $2,500 are submitted by the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement (OCSE) to the Department of State (DOS), which denies them U.S. passports upon application or the use of a passport service. Noncustodial parents are not automatically removed from the Passport Denial Program even if their arrearages fall below the $2,500 threshold.
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#4598144 - 12/08/17 02:22 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Wolf359 Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4887
Loc: MA
But if you already have a passport, it's still valid even if you owe money right? They're good for 10 years so it'd make sense just to have one.

You never know when you might need to leave the country in a hurry.

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#4598150 - 12/08/17 02:26 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: Wolf359]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
As far as I'm aware they can preemptively invalidate a passport even in mid-term.

Looks like I might be wrong about that...

Currently, there is no mechanism for the State Department to restrict or revoke existing
passports. Since a passport is valid for ten years, up to a decade can elapse between
opportunities to deny a delinquent parentís passport. States therefore carefully review
the circumstances of each case before authorizing the State Department to issue a
passport when past-due support is owed.

From quick facts on passport denial

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#4598160 - 12/08/17 02:34 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Ethan1 Offline


Registered: 12/29/14
Posts: 1639
Loc: 'murica
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
put fathers who owe child support in a bind


So? shrug

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#4598162 - 12/08/17 02:38 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: Ethan1]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
put fathers who owe child support in a bind


So? shrug


So, let's say you've been raked over the coals for 15 years, spent $50k in legal bills and paid $250k in child support, and they hold up a passport over $3000?!? That means I paid 99% of what was owed, and couldn't travel over a pittance.

It's frustrating.


Edited by CincyDavid (12/08/17 02:39 PM)
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#4598175 - 12/08/17 02:49 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
Looking at statistics that indicate that less than 50% of child support orders are "current", which means more than half of non-custodial parents are NOT current on their child support, nationally. There are 31 million child support orders in effect in the US, so 15 million parents are in arrears. I don't know how many live in the states with non-compliant IDs, but we're talking about millions of people who can't get a passport, so they won't be able to travel.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/P60-255.pdf


Edited by CincyDavid (12/08/17 02:51 PM)
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#4598182 - 12/08/17 02:51 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20565
Loc: Upstate NY
Move to Slab City Calif. There you can be off the big grid. Grid meaning lost from society, no one can find you.
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#4598183 - 12/08/17 02:53 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
If someone owes pastdue child support, they can be denied a passport. So, there are residents of several states who will basically be prohibited from flying, even domestically.
At any rate, I was denied a passport until I had a ZERO balance, and it still took 90 days to get clearance.


wow, that's very disturbing news
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#4598187 - 12/08/17 02:55 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
CincyDavid Offline


Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 729
Loc: Cincinnati, OH USA
9 states affected Jan 22, 2018...more in 2020.

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/resources/realid_factsheet.pdf

The thing that troubles me is this: what's next? If you have tax liens will they deny a passport? Past due property taxes? Past due AMEX account? Sort of the way Dubai & UAE won't let people leave the country owing bank loans of credit cards...





Edited by CincyDavid (12/08/17 03:01 PM)
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#4598188 - 12/08/17 02:56 PM Re: passports and domestic flights [Re: CincyDavid]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6186
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
put fathers who owe child support in a bind
So? shrug


So, let's say you've been raked over the coals for 15 years, spent $50k in legal bills and paid $250k in child support, and they hold up a passport over $3000?!? That means I paid 99% of what was owed, and couldn't travel over a pittance. It's frustrating.


EXACTLY!!!!

I currently owe some back child support, and it was COMPLETELY beyond my control.

"Don't judge a man until you walk in his shoes........"
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