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Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables #4596203
12/06/17 03:32 PM
12/06/17 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,376
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,376
Kendall, FL
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-m...s-idUSKBN1D80GA


HOUSTON/LONDON (Reuters) - Two decades ago, BP set out to transcend oil, adopting a sunburst logo to convey its plans to pour $8 billion over a decade into renewable technologies, even promising to power its gas stations with the sun.

That transformation - marketed as “Beyond Petroleum” - led to manufacturing solar panels in Australia, Spain and the United States and erecting wind farms in the United States and the Netherlands.

Today, BP (BP.L) might be more aptly branded “Back to Petroleum” after exiting or scaling back its renewable energy investments. Lower-cost Chinese components upended its solar panel business, which the firm shed in 2011. A year later, BP tried to sell its U.S. wind power business but couldn’t get a buyer.

“We made very big bets in the past,” BP Chief Executive Bob Dudley told Reuters in an interview. “A lot of those didn’t work. We’re not sure yet what will be commercially acceptable.”

The costly lesson of the biggest foray yet by an oil major into renewable energy was not lost on rival firms.
Even as governments and environmentalists forecast a peak in oil demand within a generation - and China and India say they may eventually ban gasoline and diesel vehicles - leaders of the world’s biggest oil firms are not buying the argument that their traditional business faces any imminent threat.

A Reuters analysis of clean energy investments and forecasts by oil majors, along with exclusive interviews with top oil executives, reveal mostly token investments in alternative energy. Today, renewable power projects get about 3 percent of $100 billion in combined annual spending by the five biggest oil firms, according to energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie.

BP, Chevron (CVX.N), Exxon Mobil (XOM.N), Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L) and Total (TOTF.PA) are instead milking their drilling and processing assets to finance investor payouts now and bolster balance sheets for the future. They believe they can enter new energy sectors later by acquiring companies or technologies if and when others prove them profitable.

“There is no sign of peak demand right now,” said Chevron CEO John Watson, an economist by training, who is retiring in early 2018. “For the next 10 or 20 years, we expect to see oil demand growth...”

Open Link above excerpt for full article.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596219
12/06/17 03:54 PM
12/06/17 03:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
The bottom line remains. It is very difficult to compete in the real world, with the energy density (energy by mass) and specific energy (energy per volume) of petroleum products.

Hydrogen may have a shot at competing with petro fuels as it's almost 3x more powerful by weight, but that will take some significant effort to manage such a difficult to handle product. Better to mix in some carbon.....


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596261
12/06/17 04:50 PM
12/06/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,157
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,157
USA
I don't know how this won't get political and locked in a few hours... but yes the energy density of fossil fuels can't be beat.

Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596264
12/06/17 04:53 PM
12/06/17 04:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,430
Illinois
javacontour Offline
javacontour  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,430
Illinois
As long as we pack ourselves into 1.5 ton vehicles to travel, we will need energy dense fuel sources.

We cannot store and recharge electrical energy as fast as we do carbon based fuels. Until we can store and move the products of renewable energy efforts in a manner similar to that of carbon based fuels, things will remain largely the same.


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596272
12/06/17 05:07 PM
12/06/17 05:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,006
SW Ontario Canada
KGMtech Offline
KGMtech  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,006
SW Ontario Canada
Fracking has had HUGE impact to the oil reserves. Electric cars are sexy, but are only 1% of total market, not likely to be even 5% in the next 15 years.

When electric cars offer: 800km range, while heating or cooling interior when outdoor temps are -32C or +35C, with charge times less than 30 minutes...and can be purchased without government grants (incentives) then I will be tempted.


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: javacontour] #4596289
12/06/17 05:29 PM
12/06/17 05:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,424
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,424
Silicon Valley
Originally Posted By: javacontour
As long as we pack ourselves into 1.5 ton vehicles to travel, we will need energy dense fuel sources.

We cannot store and recharge electrical energy as fast as we do carbon based fuels. Until we can store and move the products of renewable energy efforts in a manner similar to that of carbon based fuels, things will remain largely the same.



In theory if chemical battery exist where incoming liquids are converted into out going liquid, you can quickly swap liquid at a station by pumping in and out. However you will need to deal with hazmat and other nasty stuff like spill related electrical shock, or something like that. Carbon based fuel and charging a battery whenever you stop is probably a better idea.

Or an over the head line with self driving car on the highway like your local trolley.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: javacontour] #4596327
12/06/17 06:25 PM
12/06/17 06:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: javacontour
As long as we pack ourselves into 1.5 ton vehicles to travel, we will need energy dense fuel sources.


Ultimately, this is true. Interestingly, the Tesla Model S illustrated that we could drive large, powerful cars on just batteries. It thereby provides hope of a motoring future devoid of annoying and ultimately incapable "Elio" type vehicles. The Tesla's are not cheap, but they do work quite well.

With the current generation of 2170 cells, a near-doubling of range is going to be possible. Unfortunately, it's not cheaper...

A friend has 2 Tesla's and 10Kw solar grid-tie. One way to view it is that his solar array provides all of the power needed for all his driving. Total cost: $240K.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596395
12/06/17 07:49 PM
12/06/17 07:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 395
Texas
BalticBob Offline
BalticBob  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 395
Texas
Electric cars, what a joke. You either burn fossil fuel directly in a gasoline/diesel engine vehicle, or burn fossil fuel in a electrical generating power plant to provide the electricity to charge electric vehicles. It takes massive, huge amounts of "on demand" electricity to charge the volume of electric cars the govt. wants on the roads.
Wind and solar won't do it, clouds and calm days seem to hinder the electricity generating process. I say go nuclear for power plants, it is clean, safe and glows in the dark.

Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: BalticBob] #4596414
12/06/17 08:18 PM
12/06/17 08:18 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 246
Hawaii, USA
anndel Offline
anndel  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 246
Hawaii, USA
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
Electric cars, what a joke. You either burn fossil fuel directly in a gasoline/diesel engine vehicle, or burn fossil fuel in a electrical generating power plant to provide the electricity to charge electric vehicles. It takes massive, huge amounts of "on demand" electricity to charge the volume of electric cars the govt. wants on the roads.
Wind and solar won't do it, clouds and calm days seem to hinder the electricity generating process. I say go nuclear for power plants, it is clean, safe and glows in the dark.


As it doesn't emit the so called "Green House Gas" that contributes to the so called "Climate Change."

Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596422
12/06/17 08:24 PM
12/06/17 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
The oil companies have something up their sleeves; otherwise they would've had Leon Musk killed.

Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596457
12/06/17 08:47 PM
12/06/17 08:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Along as I keep seeing close outs on motor oil for .45 a qt. I am going to say Peak Oil is a scam. It never was a issue just a scare tactic to justify oil/ gas prices.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596530
12/06/17 09:33 PM
12/06/17 09:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,857
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,857
Kalifornia Kollective
I'm a bit more concerned with peak population ...

If we had 1/2 the people, we'd have resources galore. The issue is not oil ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: BrocLuno] #4596607
12/06/17 10:31 PM
12/06/17 10:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,029
Virginia
bbhero Online content
bbhero  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,029
Virginia
Very, very true BrocLuno.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: wemay] #4596669
12/06/17 11:51 PM
12/06/17 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: wemay

“There is no sign of peak demand right now,” said Chevron CEO John Watson, an economist by training, who is retiring in early 2018. “For the next 10 or 20 years, we expect to see oil demand growth...”


That's gotta make all the environmentalists really happy.......


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Peak oil? Majors not buying threat from renewables [Re: javacontour] #4596672
12/06/17 11:53 PM
12/06/17 11:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: javacontour
As long as we pack ourselves into 1.5 ton vehicles to travel, we will need energy dense fuel sources.


My motorcycle gets 57 mpg....

how come no one is pushing for "energy saving credits" for motorcycle riders?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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