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10-ply too much? #4595071
12/05/17 02:14 PM
12/05/17 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
NissanHauler Offline OP
NissanHauler  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
What are the pros and cons of running a 10 ply over a 4 ply tire. Vehicle is a 2017 tacoma (see signature). Got a set of nokian haka lt2's And see that they are 10 ply. How will it affect traction and steering? Ride quality is a secondary concern to me


Non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus, difficilia sunt
2017 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Double Cab 4x4 V6
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595099
12/05/17 02:28 PM
12/05/17 02:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,215
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,215
The Canyons
The 10 ply rated LT tire is much sturdier construction, so that in itself will help durability while offroad, but with that sturdier construction comes a harsher ride, and more weight in the tire itself. Which negatively affects acceleration, braking, and fuel economy.

The P-rated 4 ply rated tires are chosen by OEM's for their smoother ride, and better MPG.

Another thing to keep in mind is that P-rated 4-ply rated tires when mounted on trucks and SUV's, is that the load rating of the tire is reduced by a factor of 1.1.

If you're really going to use the truck off-road, and don't mind the trade-offs of the heavier, sturdier tire, I'd go with the 10 ply rated LT tire.

Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: 02SE] #4595112
12/05/17 02:34 PM
12/05/17 02:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
NissanHauler Offline OP
NissanHauler  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: 02SE
The 10 ply rated LT tire is much sturdier construction, so that in itself will help durability while offroad, but with that sturdier construction comes a harsher ride, and more weight in the tire itself. Which negatively affects acceleration, braking, and fuel economy.

The P-rated 4 ply rated tires are chosen by OEM's for their smoother ride, and better MPG.

Another thing to keep in mind is that P-rated 4-ply rated tires when mounted on trucks and SUV's, is that the load rating of the tire is reduced by a factor of 1.1.

If you're really going to use the truck off-road, and don't mind the trade-offs of the heavier, sturdier tire, I'd go with the 10 ply rated LT tire.


The tires in question will Be my Winter tires. Ooccasional off road and gravel but the rave reviews and the great deal I was able to get on the nokian hakapalletia lt2's Made me jump on them and I just happened to notice they were 10 ply, so long as my traction isn't compromised I don't care about ride quality, it's a dang truck


Non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus, difficilia sunt
2017 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Double Cab 4x4 V6
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595145
12/05/17 03:03 PM
12/05/17 03:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,698
West Michigan
buck91 Offline
buck91  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,698
West Michigan
Well, first of all the ply rating terminology is a vestigial remnant of when tires were constructed with biased plys. They roughly approximate the current LT load ratings but are not accurate. A "10 ply" is supposed to be an LT Load E rated tire but I think you'd be surprised to find very few have anywhere near ten plys.

For example, the Falken AT3W LT285/70r17 Load Range E tires I have on my F150 actually have:
-5 tread plies (2 polyester, 2 steel, 1 polyamide)
-2 sidewall plies (polyester)

I suppose one could say its a "5 ply" but thats just...wrong. Anyways I will step down off my soapbox now, but its just one of those things that kinda rubs me wrong so I had to say something.

FWIW, it seems like the biggest different these days is with tread depth and carcass weight. One could assume the latter being related to "toughness" I suppose.


2011 F150 4x4 5.0L
1996 Mustang GT 5spd/ragtop
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595152
12/05/17 03:09 PM
12/05/17 03:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,023
TX, USA
JMJNet Offline
JMJNet  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,023
TX, USA
Actually, the 10 ply should have more traction.
I am assuming it is a thicker thread also.


  • 2017 Toyota Sienna
  • 1995 GMC Suburban 6.5L Turbo Diesel


Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595191
12/05/17 03:41 PM
12/05/17 03:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,319
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,319
Cincinnati, OH, USA
The Load Range E/10 ply "RATED" tire isn't going to have 10 plys, but it will have a much larger load capacity. For instance, the GMC C3500 in my sig has LT245/75R16E tires on all 4 corners, but I only run 45-50 PSI in the fronts, and adjust the rears to whatever load I'm carrying-if it's basically empty, they get 50 PSI, a heavy load in the bed or trailer, they get 80. The only tradeoff on a lighter truck is a more truck-like ride.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595287
12/05/17 05:41 PM
12/05/17 05:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,125
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,125
iowa
Don't forget about how FN heavy they are, plus much more money. Kills the acceleration, braking, ride, and fuel economy too.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595348
12/05/17 06:45 PM
12/05/17 06:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Plenty of guys at TacomaWorld run Load Range E tires on their trucks with no major issues.

I think they'll make for a rather harsh and howling ride on the highway, but as you said ride quality is not important.

Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595355
12/05/17 06:53 PM
12/05/17 06:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
I've wheeled with P tires for years, no issues. E seems a bit excessive for a Tacoma, but if it has power/brakes to spare, guess try it.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595376
12/05/17 07:40 PM
12/05/17 07:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,476
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,476
Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: NissanHauler
What are the pros and cons of running a 10 ply over a 4 ply tire. Vehicle is a 2017 tacoma (see signature). Got a set of nokian haka lt2's And see that they are 10 ply. How will it affect traction and steering? Ride quality is a secondary concern to me


First, you need to use 15 psi more than what the vehicle tire placard says. That preserves the load carrying capacity of the tire, compared to the P type tire that was on there before. Needless to say, that is going to negatively affect the ride quality.

But traction and steering response is more controlled by the tire itself and not the change in tire type.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595385
12/05/17 07:48 PM
12/05/17 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,561
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,561
ME
I always thought that one of the things that made a snow tire good was a soft sidewall and the ability of the tread to flex and toss snow out, when appropriate. Going with these over-rugged 10 plies seems like a step in the wrong direction.

But if you get more tread or better rubber compounds that could counteract it.

Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: CapriRacer] #4595528
12/05/17 10:24 PM
12/05/17 10:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,698
West Michigan
buck91 Offline
buck91  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,698
West Michigan
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
[quote=NissanHauler]...First, you need to use 15 psi more than what the vehicle tire placard says...



Not necessarily true. You need to check the load inflation tables. Using my truck for the example again. Stock tire was a P235/75r17 (I forget the load range at this moment) and after cross checking the tables and talking with Falken we determined that running Load E LT285/70r17 would take the same [38psi] inflation pressure. But of course there was a drastic sizing change.


2011 F150 4x4 5.0L
1996 Mustang GT 5spd/ragtop
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: NissanHauler] #4595573
12/05/17 11:54 PM
12/05/17 11:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 24
california
slowrench Offline
slowrench  Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 24
california
!0 ply tires are stock on my 1986 GM K20 HD 6.2L.I will always believe that the tires saved me and my truck,when I was rear ended by a drunk driver,and sent into a full 360,with an 800 pound garden tractor in the bed of my truck.The stiff 70 to 80pd tires, handled the situation way better, allowing me to slide instead of roll over.

Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: CapriRacer] #4595859
12/06/17 09:50 AM
12/06/17 09:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 426
Nevada, USA
gaijinnv Offline
gaijinnv  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 426
Nevada, USA
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: NissanHauler
What are the pros and cons of running a 10 ply over a 4 ply tire. Vehicle is a 2017 tacoma (see signature). Got a set of nokian haka lt2's And see that they are 10 ply. How will it affect traction and steering? Ride quality is a secondary concern to me


First, you need to use 15 psi more than what the vehicle tire placard says. That preserves the load carrying capacity of the tire, compared to the P type tire that was on there before. Needless to say, that is going to negatively affect the ride quality.

But traction and steering response is more controlled by the tire itself and not the change in tire type.



That's a blanket generalization that is more often than not incorrect. It might get one close to the desired pressure in some cases, but it would be dangerous to follow it as a general rule.

OP's Tacoma came standard with P245/75R16 tires and a recommended cold tire inflation pressure of 32psi F/R. This yields a Load Limit of 2,172 pounds/tire.

OP did not state specifically, but let's assume the Nokian LT2's he purchased are the same size just LT-Metric, i.e. LT245/75R16.

Since we have to adjust the Load Limit requirement by 10% when switching from a P-Metric tire to a LT-Metric tire, we need to find a tire pressure for the LT-Metric tires that would yield a Load Limit of 1,975 pounds/tire (2172/1.1=1975).

All that means that the Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure for the LT245/75R16 tires on the OP's 2017 Tacoma is 44psi F/R.

HTH


USN NAVSECGRU 1970-1974
Re: 10-ply too much? [Re: gaijinnv] #4596373
12/06/17 06:30 PM
12/06/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
NissanHauler Offline OP
NissanHauler  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: gaijinnv
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: NissanHauler
What are the pros and cons of running a 10 ply over a 4 ply tire. Vehicle is a 2017 tacoma (see signature). Got a set of nokian haka lt2's And see that they are 10 ply. How will it affect traction and steering? Ride quality is a secondary concern to me


First, you need to use 15 psi more than what the vehicle tire placard says. That preserves the load carrying capacity of the tire, compared to the P type tire that was on there before. Needless to say, that is going to negatively affect the ride quality.

But traction and steering response is more controlled by the tire itself and not the change in tire type.



That's a blanket generalization that is more often than not incorrect. It might get one close to the desired pressure in some cases, but it would be dangerous to follow it as a general rule.

OP's Tacoma came standard with P245/75R16 tires and a recommended cold tire inflation pressure of 32psi F/R. This yields a Load Limit of 2,172 pounds/tire.

OP did not state specifically, but let's assume the Nokian LT2's he purchased are the same size just LT-Metric, i.e. LT245/75R16.

Since we have to adjust the Load Limit requirement by 10% when switching from a P-Metric tire to a LT-Metric tire, we need to find a tire pressure for the LT-Metric tires that would yield a Load Limit of 1,975 pounds/tire (2172/1.1=1975).

All that means that the Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure for the LT245/75R16 tires on the OP's 2017 Tacoma is 44psi F/R.

HTH

Can i get this in English? Are you say I g I need to run my tires at 44psi?


Non quia difficilia sunt non audemus, sed quia non audemus, difficilia sunt
2017 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Double Cab 4x4 V6
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