Recent Topics
Trying to fix chainsaw
by turtlevette
2 minutes 46 seconds ago
tire rotation
by marine65
2 minutes 46 seconds ago
Reese hitch $30 Walmart YMMV
by pda1122
36 minutes 46 seconds ago
Managing Anger During Unexpected Tire Change
by TheLawnRanger
37 minutes 32 seconds ago
2016 Honda Pilot appears to be consuming oil
by pilot1226
50 minutes 44 seconds ago
New belt squeal cause damage to belt?
by pda1122
Today at 05:33 PM
Food Safety - If You Have Children
by Zee09
Today at 05:15 PM
Reduce TORQUE to COMPENSATE for lubed threads?
by SumpChump
Today at 05:02 PM
Chain cleaning and lube
by dadinfo
Today at 04:57 PM
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 $23.65 at Walmart
by 71Chevyguy
Today at 04:36 PM
diesel oil in older engines- RE: cats etc
by 928
Today at 04:35 PM
2011 F-150 Ecoboost timing chain replacement
by 14Accent
Today at 04:31 PM
My stash of Kendall GT1 almost gone..
by Vern_in_IL
Today at 04:30 PM
mobil 1 rebate check
by Fitter30
Today at 03:52 PM
Cab mount failure
by ram_man
Today at 03:31 PM
02 Saab aero oil?
by Newuser
Today at 03:00 PM
Extend wifi range
by clarkflower
Today at 02:05 PM
Under valve cover pics 207,000 miles
by WobblyElvis
Today at 01:57 PM
Lease Buyout by Dealer
by Throt
Today at 01:52 PM
13 Ford Escape
by RedOak
Today at 01:10 PM
Newest Members
bwechols, bowupid, pod423, lemaitrix, azzid0906
65303 Registered Users
Who's Online
78 registered (2015_PSD, 2004tdigls, Balrog006, asiancivicmaniac, AndyB, 10 invisible), 1467 Guests and 50 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65303 Members
67 Forums
285870 Topics
4770670 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#4594545 - 12/05/17 12:16 AM Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C
Kung_Faux Offline


Registered: 08/13/15
Posts: 12
Loc: Aus
Hi All,

Found a tempting price for the Castrol Edge (For Aus anyway...10ltrs for $69 @ Repco), but all of my 'fleet' need the ford global spec (which is what they usually get).

All are out of warranty, all run well...are there any obvious concerns going down this path?

Cheers

Top
#4594579 - 12/05/17 02:44 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4468
Loc: Down Under
Hey Mate,

I started a thread on Ford WSS-M2C913-D here
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4543378/1

The 913-D is the updated version of the 913-C, and its based on the Euro ACEA A5/B5 spec, it is a 5W30 and it appears to have a decent high TBN and Zinc levels. The A5/B5 is very good spec., effectively full synthetic, and a lower HTHS oil ( below 3.5 cP) and is at the thinner end of the 30 grade.

Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is a full synthetic Euro ACEA A3/B4 oil with high TBN and Zinc levels. It's also a very good oil with a higher HTHS (above 3.5 cP) and is at the thicker end of the 30 grade.

I would have no problems going down the Edge 5W30 A3/B4 path, it seems to offer everything Ford requires but in a thicker 5W30 package. In theory you may use a little more fuel in laboratory tests, but it's unlikely your will notice any change in real world driving. Also in theory, the thicker oil will offer a slightly high safety margin for wear if racing, but it's unlikely you will notice any change in real world driving.

In Australia, it's often easier to find Edge 5W30 A3/B4 at a good price than it is to find a Ford 913-C/D oil at a good price, so it make sense to me what you are doing.

As an aside, these Ford 913-C/D oils are very well formulated oils, and they are the world spec for Ford. Yet the only place that doesn't use them is North America, the home of Ford. I believe it is because they are high in zinc (ZDDP) and as such break the API SN chemical limits (for Phos / Zn) and therefore must be classed as an API SL oil, no matter how good they are. The Edge A3/B4 is the same, its API SL, due to elevated Zinc / Phos levels, even though it meets all the quality requirements of API SN and even the very tough OEMs of MB 229.5 and BMW LL-01. It seems to me certain markets find it difficult to accept a non-SN oil, but those are not the Australian or European markets.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

Top
#4594624 - 12/05/17 05:44 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2189
Loc: Malaysia
Thanks, SR5.
5W30 A3B4 has higher Hths/KV100*C and higher TBN , and fully matches 913C in all other aspects/test paremeters.

Top
#4594765 - 12/05/17 08:59 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: SR5]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: SR5
.... the only place that doesn't use them is North America, the home of Ford. I believe it is because they are high in zinc (ZDDP) and as such break the API SN chemical limits (for Phos / Zn) and therefore must be classed as an API SL oil, no matter how good they are.


It is what happens when politicians have too much say over your lives......
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4594992 - 12/05/17 01:20 PM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
Silk Online   content


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4565
Loc: New Zealand
You would pay that much for 5 litres on special here. I use it in everything.
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

Top
#4595200 - 12/05/17 03:45 PM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Silk]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4468
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Silk
I use it in everything.

Yep, when it comes to petrol cars, Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 would be top of my list for almost everything.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

Top
#4595538 - 12/05/17 10:38 PM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
Silk Online   content


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4565
Loc: New Zealand
A couple of vehicles in today - an Outlander, 10,000km and 4 months overdue on a service, that's 25,000km (15,500miles) on the oil in 16 months, the other a 2014 BMW 116i, at 16,000km possibly it's first service. Castrol recommend Edge 5W-30 for both, and very happy to be using it at both ends of extreme service, it can handle it.
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

Top
#4595574 - 12/06/17 12:00 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: SR5]
Kung_Faux Offline


Registered: 08/13/15
Posts: 12
Loc: Aus
Appreciate your input SR5 thanks for that.

I've had my BFMkII Falcon for a little while now and it was a struggle originally (in my mind anyway) to find a wss-m2c929 or 946A specced oil on the shelves. I reckon my only options initially were Mobil 1 5w30 or the Nulon Long-Life 5w30. Thankfully the offerings are broader now and I've just used up my mini stash of PP 5w30 that I bought online and will move on to my 20ltr drum of Caltex Havoline Eco 5 (SN, GF5, 946A & Dexos1), at the next change. (as a side note do you remember the Havoline Energy 10w 30 Semi-Synth you could get back in the early 2000's, I really liked that one)

Anyways I always thought it was interesting that ford went the ILSAC GF4 (now GF5) API route with the Barra 190kw on 15K KM service interval instead of the global spec?

I assume they were chasing fuel economy improvements to keep the sedan offering relevant in an ever increasing diesel market and the 6cyl with its 6.6ltr sump and roller fingers was easy on the 'thinner' oil irrespective of our climate/driving consitions?

In any case do you think that eventually I would be ok just to use a 913D (or spec equivalent like the Edge) for the mix of 913D & 946-A cars that I look after?

Top
#4595619 - 12/06/17 03:12 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Linctex]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24612
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Linctex
It is what happens when politicians have too much say over your lives......

Ford is petrified of high phosphorus in even their 5w-50 gasoline engine oil, where that limit isn't there. Of course, Ford is petrified of "some" low phosphorus HDEOs, so I'm not sure they even know what they want themselves.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4595638 - 12/06/17 04:24 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 1156
Loc: Australia
All Magnatec was 60% off today at Supercheap so I called in to buy a few packs of 5w30 and found that Magnatec 5w30 A5 is cheaper per litre than the regular GF-5 stuff. The 6L pack is perfect too. $25 per pack, not bad



Top
#4595715 - 12/06/17 06:47 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Kung_Faux]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4468
Loc: Down Under
Quote:
In any case do you think that eventually I would be ok just to use a 913D (or spec equivalent like the Edge) for the mix of 913D & 946-A cars that I look after?


I would go A5/B5 & 913-D (or A3/B4) over GF-5 & 946-A any day of the week.

BTW you can get the full synthetic Castrol Magnatec 5W30 A5 (A5/B5 & 913-D) as Supercity above points out, plus Castrol Edge 10W30 which is also A5/B5. Either of those two look good to me also. There is also a full synthetic Magnatec 5W30 Stop-Start that is A3/B4, another good choice.

Really any name brand, full synthetic 30 grade oil (5W30 or 10W30) that carries Euro A5/B5 or A3/B4 would be a fine choice. Note only all the Castrol optiona above, you also have Valvoline SynPower FE, Shell Helix HX8, and offerings from both Penrite and Nulon.

Buy on price, lots of synthetic 30 grade oils with Euro ACEA specs in Australia and NZ.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

Top
#4596304 - 12/06/17 04:48 PM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Garak]
car51 Offline


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 10257
Loc: Southwest PA
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Linctex
It is what happens when politicians have too much say over your lives......

Ford is petrified of high phosphorus in even their 5w-50 gasoline engine oil, where that limit isn't there. Of course, Ford is petrified of "some" low phosphorus HDEOs, so I'm not sure they even know what they want themselves.


Yeah, doesn’t the MC 10w30 Diesel engine oil and 15w40 oil say something like over 1,000ppm phosphorus?
_________________________
2009 Toyota Camry LE

Top
#4596752 - 12/07/17 04:33 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: car51]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24612
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Yes, as far as I recall. Ford's oil specifications are beginning to get a Chrysler hodge podge look to them.

As much as I and others have given GM a hard time over the years, their view to specifying oil for older, non-warranty examples is simplicity itself. If you were to ask GM what to put in your 1990 Vette right now, long out of warranty, they'd say to use a dexos1 5w-30, and would say that for darn near every gasoline vehicle in their history. It would be overkill for most, but it would be a sensible, readily obtainable lubricant. It won't matter if it's a Vette or a 454 truck or a Cavalier or an old Impala with a 305. That's what they'll tell you to use. You ask them about any historical GM diesel, they'll tell you to grab whatever 15w-40 with the current spec on the shelf for summer and 10w-30 for the cold.

There's none of this Chrysler Spec Number whatever that is only found on one brand, or the Mercedes spec for some Chrysler vehicles, or a Fiat spec, or Ford not being sure what the phosphorus level should be depending upon the API spec, or some orphaned Jaguar or Land Rover spec that hasn't been seen in North America since Mobil 1 ditched the spec with the SN rollout, or a bizarre 5w-50 specification that can only be found on two bottles in North America, neither of which are the 5w-50 readily available on a retail shelf.

We here may have some ideas about what should be used in some of these examples, but the average person sure doesn't, and a shop trying to do things correctly really has an uphill battle. What Ford needs to do with these orphaned specs is put out a bit of guidance. The people who are in North America and are stuck with an older Jaguar or Land Rover with the North American 5w-30 spec should simply be told to use an A5/B5 5w-30 or anything A3/B4, since finding something with the actual spec on the bottle is going to be problematic, to say the least.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4596772 - 12/07/17 05:24 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: Garak]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4468
Loc: Down Under
Quote:
A5/B5 5w-30 or anything A3/B4


That advice is plenty better than trying to find a Jaguar or Land Rover spec oil. Just stick to the 30 or 40 grades with those specs, with suitable cold starting rating for your climate, and you should be fine.

GM with Dexos1 & Dexos2 did a better job than Ford with it's multitude of specs. Dexos1 for petrol / gas and Dexos2 for diesel. However for performance petrol / gas applications in Australia, GM say to step it up to Dexos2 oil (higher HTHS). Very simple.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

Top
#4597052 - 12/07/17 11:23 AM Re: Castrol Edge 5w30 a3/b4 Vs WSS-M2C913-C [Re: SR5]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24612
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I remember a few years ago here we went through trying to find something with that obscure, basically A5/B5 specification, and the only thing left on the market was some Castrol OE Professional, which, as you know, is just so easy to find. wink M1 5w-30 used to have the spec in question, but that disappeared with the SN rollout. I'm sure the oil companies just love these rather limited production spec runs, particularly in North America where simple ILSAC stuff was good enough for so long.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top