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#4591120 - 12/01/17 03:07 PM 0w20 higher visc than 5w20?
hcbarger Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Kentucky
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96' Cherokee Sport Kendall SB5W30 Champ filter 173,581mi
16' Mazda6 Mazda filter Mazda reccomended castrol syn 0w20 30276mi

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#4591121 - 12/01/17 03:08 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Pretty normal.
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#4591127 - 12/01/17 03:14 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: OVERKILL]
hcbarger Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Kentucky
Thanks. Probably going to do the 0 considering the abnormal cold we're expecting.
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16' Mazda6 Mazda filter Mazda reccomended castrol syn 0w20 30276mi

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#4591135 - 12/01/17 03:19 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
dave123 Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 2316
Loc: wi
Originally Posted By: hcbarger
Thanks. Probably going to do the 0 considering the abnormal cold we're expecting.
it will never know a difference in Kentucky.

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#4591137 - 12/01/17 03:20 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39924
Loc: 'Stralia
HTHS is where the protection is, and they are about the same.

It's a weird data sheet 'though

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#4591142 - 12/01/17 03:26 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6176
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: hcbarger
considering the abnormal cold we're expecting.


I don't think Kentucky ever gets cold enough to where someone genuinely needs 0w-20

Not like in North Dakota or Minnesota....
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#4591149 - 12/01/17 03:33 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
hcbarger Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Kentucky
This vehicle is making a two week stint in Toronto in January. I know it's not like spending a lifetime there, but still...


Edited by hcbarger (12/01/17 03:34 PM)
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#4591152 - 12/01/17 03:34 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2569
Loc: MN
Its not a "weird" data sheet.
0w20 uses thinner base oils than 5w20, although the 0w20's higher kv100 is due to use of more VII, which increases viscosity on that hotter end of things.
Also, +0.4 cSt isn't much diff anyway.

Kendall does seem to be great oil to use. I hear those oils can go a whopping 2,000 miles between oil changes, as the 2-finger logo touts. Revolutionary it is. Others will follow.
Seriously though, the good amount of Ti in it is cool. (Castrol uses far less Ti.)

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#4591158 - 12/01/17 03:42 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: oil_film_movies]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Its not a "weird" data sheet.
0w20 uses thinner base oils than 5w20, although the 0w20's higher kv100 is due to use of more VII, which increases viscosity on that hotter end of things.
Also, +0.4 cSt isn't much diff anyway.

Kendall does seem to be great oil to use. I hear those oils can go a whopping 2,000 miles between oil changes, as the 2-finger logo touts. Revolutionary it is. Others will follow.
Seriously though, the good amount of Ti in it is cool. (Castrol uses far less Ti.)


Not necessarily. M1 EP and AP 0w-20, which you and I recently discussed, just has more PAO on it versus a 5w-20, which can be made with Group III for example wink

Now of course that's likely not applicable here, but figured I'd mention it, as that's sometimes the case.
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#4591163 - 12/01/17 03:46 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: oil_film_movies]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39924
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Its not a "weird" data sheet.


OK then...

look at the line that says "HTHS".
Then look a the line straight after it that says [email protected]

Then look at the values in the 30 grades

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#4591180 - 12/01/17 04:04 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: OVERKILL]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2569
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Not necessarily. M1 EP and AP 0w-20, which you and I recently discussed, just has more PAO on it versus a 5w-20, which can be made with Group III for example wink Now of course that's likely not applicable here, but figured I'd mention it, as that's sometimes the case.

I see what you're saying.
For example, if you made a full syn 5w20 using entirely GroupIII, as I think Kendall has, you could "convert" that 5w20 product in to a 0w20 by substituting some PAO in for some percentage of the GroupIII, knowing that PAO would allow the cold cranking 0w maximum to be met. (PAO makes seals shrink, so alterations in seal swell chemicals may have to be made, and then you might need some esters for additive solubility... a can o' worms....http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28601/switch-to-synthetic ).

If staying with all-GroupIII for your 0w20, which is what I assume Kendall did here, you would have to use thinner oils and boost the hot kv100 upward via more VII added.

Also, they might have over-shot the minimum new-oil kv100 knowing there probably would be VII permanent shear happening. Good idea to do that.
So that kv100 might (likely will) shear down at mid- to later life of the oil in the sump, but your cold 0w cranking should still be OK since VII mostly affects the hot temperatures, not extreme cold cranking.

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#4591185 - 12/01/17 04:08 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: hcbarger]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
The thinner the oil at startup the better. Period.
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#4591186 - 12/01/17 04:08 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: Shannow]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2569
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Its not a "weird" data sheet.
OK then...look at the line that says "HTHS".Then look a the line straight after it that says [email protected] Then look at the values in the 30 grades


You're right. I saw that. So many data sheets from other makers have these stupid errors in it. How hard is it for a big oil company to get an engineer to review and edit these things before releasing it to the public?

Thread subject was just looking at the kv100 line, and over-shooting the kv100 isn't a bad idea, so that part isn't weird.

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#4591191 - 12/01/17 04:14 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: mightymousetech]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39924
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
The thinner the oil at startup the better. Period.


OK, got evidence of that ?

If you are well within the pumpable range, then I disagree with you.

If you are at the limits of pumpability...different matter...and this isn't

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#4591202 - 12/01/17 04:26 PM Re: 0w20 higher visc than 5w20? [Re: oil_film_movies]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Not necessarily. M1 EP and AP 0w-20, which you and I recently discussed, just has more PAO on it versus a 5w-20, which can be made with Group III for example wink Now of course that's likely not applicable here, but figured I'd mention it, as that's sometimes the case.

I see what you're saying.
For example, if you made a full syn 5w20 using entirely GroupIII, as I think Kendall has, you could "convert" that 5w20 product in to a 0w20 by substituting some PAO in for some percentage of the GroupIII, knowing that PAO would allow the cold cranking 0w maximum to be met.


Exactly. Or, if it is already PAO based, just use more PAO.

Example:

M1 EP 5w-20 MSDS:


versus:
M1 EP 0w-20 MSDS:



Which would lead one to believe that the VII treat rate is likely quite similar, they just use more PAO in the 0w-xx IMHO.
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