Klotz Octane Booster

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Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.
 
Originally Posted By: justintendo
im not sure theres anything bottled that is a reliable octane booster....


Pretty much.

At least, to get any *real* effect, that is...
 
If I understand ignition timing your engine is setup to advance and retard as planned by the CPU, your driving, and the ambient conditions. If your engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation the timing might be retarded as needed to protect itself, not to produce more power. Changing the octane rating of the fuel does not change the CPU programming but it might help reduce the effects of pre-ignition or detonation. Theoretically, this could produce a very small but difficult to measure amount of work during this time that the engine would otherwise be protecting itself and possibly even experiencing pumping losses. The CPU does not change its programming and do something like advancing the timing in the presence of higher octane fuel to produce more power. In other words, the CPU and ignition timing don't go looking for pre-ignition or detonation. Higher octane fuel or octane boosters are better suited to making your wallet a bit lighter.

Did this explanation confuse me or you?
 
Don't know about that... Klotz and Torco are legitimate octane boosters. Those two actually do substantially raise octane levels. I agree with the other poster that asked if Sunoco race fuel was available nearby as that would actually be cheaper than Klotz or Torco.
 
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.


Wildly specific to the engine design and the state of tune. This includes the software.

AcesIV works fantastic in my car but it is not even remotely similar to yours. Knocked my KR down several points. The only product I use, and not for the street, just when I go to the strip.

And everyone should note that most programming seeks more timing to the threshold of knock...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If I understand ignition timing your engine is setup to advance and retard as planned by the CPU, your driving, and the ambient conditions. If your engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation the timing might be retarded as needed to protect itself, not to produce more power. Changing the octane rating of the fuel does not change the CPU programming but it might help reduce the effects of pre-ignition or detonation. Theoretically, this could produce a very small but difficult to measure amount of work during this time that the engine would otherwise be protecting itself and possibly even experiencing pumping losses. The CPU does not change its programming and do something like advancing the timing in the presence of higher octane fuel to produce more power. In other words, the CPU and ignition timing don't go looking for pre-ignition or detonation. Higher octane fuel or octane boosters are better suited to making your wallet a bit lighter.

Did this explanation confuse me or you?


This is not true in most modern vehicles, I worked on the electronics of a knock detection system in the last millennium for a major US OEM that used a closed loop to attempt to keep the engine in an area of extremely light knock that the driver could not even notice...we were told this was the sweet spot for power and fuel economy. I can't say it stayed in the sweet spot all the time, but it was cool to watch the prototype in the dyno respond to changes lickety split...this system gave the engine to respond to different octane levels on the fly, didn't need to be "told" the octane but it would adjust timing based on how the engine performed/shook.

This system was intended to be used across the OEM's gas engine product line, not just in performance and/or luxury vehicles. Believe it may have been needed for CARB requirements, I know that was true of the misfire system we did but I'm not 100% sure about the knock loop.
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
..... used a closed loop to attempt to keep the engine in an area of extremely light knock that the driver could not even notice...we were told this was the sweet spot for power and fuel economy.


100% correct.

When it comes to piston engines, if you are not living on the edge, you are giving up power and fuel economy.
 
Why not add water meth injection from someone like snow performance? There are a ton of kits out there. I know alot of GTO guys with twin turbos or big Maggies that run those kits without any issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
What will you be using it in?


The car in my signature. Turbo Subaru BRZ.

Just so everyone knows it is custom tuned on Ecutek. It currently sees little to no knock but its extremely conservatively tuned. I'm no where near MBT which is about +10 degrees of timing advance. Only run 15 degrees now at .78 lambda.

I ran MMT based stuff before like torco it works just not sure of long term reliability with the abrasiveness of organometallics and that orange residue it coats everything in.
 
Originally Posted By: Gimpy1
Why not add water meth injection from someone like snow performance? There are a ton of kits out there. I know alot of GTO guys with twin turbos or big Maggies that run those kits without any issues.


Probably what I'll end up doing. I could setup a flex fuel system for e85 but that requires bigger injectors, the sensor/wiring and fuel pump. The Meth injection kit is much cheaper and on demand. I use to run e85 before turbo and it made a nice difference since the motor is so octane limited but I moved and its not practical to daily e85 esp. since it only nets 18-20mpg. Hence Meth where it comes on only when needed..
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.


Wildly specific to the engine design and the state of tune. This includes the software.

AcesIV works fantastic in my car but it is not even remotely similar to yours. Knocked my KR down several points. The only product I use, and not for the street, just when I go to the strip.

And everyone should note that most programming seeks more timing to the threshold of knock...




Dodge guy huh
wink.gif
They are fun to race. The R/T's are surprisingly slow I can beat them easily. The SRT8s not really. Maybe 1-2 cars behind. I trap around 108-110 mph. Looks like close to you at 111. And all from a little 2.0L boxer-4. But that said this car is a road course car not drag.
 
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.


Wildly specific to the engine design and the state of tune. This includes the software.

AcesIV works fantastic in my car but it is not even remotely similar to yours. Knocked my KR down several points. The only product I use, and not for the street, just when I go to the strip.

And everyone should note that most programming seeks more timing to the threshold of knock...




Dodge guy huh
wink.gif
They are fun to race. The R/T's are surprisingly slow I can beat them easily. The SRT8s not really. Maybe 1-2 cars behind. I trap around 108-110 mph. Looks like close to you at 111. And all from a little 2.0L boxer-4. But that said this car is a road course car not drag.


I have been to road course track events all over this country. You'd be very surprised how the big girl does at a road course.

That's a better trap than almost any Subie I've ever seen. I'm used to them getting out on me a bit early then reeling them in at the big end.

Good luck with your car!
 
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