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#4589428 - 11/29/17 10:18 PM Klotz Octane Booster
stevo585 Offline


Registered: 08/26/17
Posts: 37
Loc: Orlando, FL
Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.
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#4589436 - 11/29/17 10:22 PM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
What will you be using it in?
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#4589485 - 11/29/17 11:53 PM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
justintendo Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 101
Loc: northwest pa
im not sure theres anything bottled that is a reliable octane booster..are there no gas stations around to buy some 100-110 octane?
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#4589500 - 11/30/17 12:59 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: justintendo]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: justintendo
im not sure theres anything bottled that is a reliable octane booster....


Pretty much.

At least, to get any *real* effect, that is...
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#4589509 - 11/30/17 02:00 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
jakewells Offline


Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 468
Loc: Cave City KY
a hand full of old fashion moth balls will do it.
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#4589531 - 11/30/17 04:08 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
If I understand ignition timing your engine is setup to advance and retard as planned by the CPU, your driving, and the ambient conditions. If your engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation the timing might be retarded as needed to protect itself, not to produce more power. Changing the octane rating of the fuel does not change the CPU programming but it might help reduce the effects of pre-ignition or detonation. Theoretically, this could produce a very small but difficult to measure amount of work during this time that the engine would otherwise be protecting itself and possibly even experiencing pumping losses. The CPU does not change its programming and do something like advancing the timing in the presence of higher octane fuel to produce more power. In other words, the CPU and ignition timing don't go looking for pre-ignition or detonation. Higher octane fuel or octane boosters are better suited to making your wallet a bit lighter.

Did this explanation confuse me or you?

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#4589532 - 11/30/17 04:16 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: jakewells]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7479
Loc: S California
Originally Posted By: jakewells
a hand full of old fashion moth balls will do it.



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#4589549 - 11/30/17 05:09 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: Linctex]
bbhero Online   content


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4623
Loc: Virginia
Don't know about that... Klotz and Torco are legitimate octane boosters. Those two actually do substantially raise octane levels. I agree with the other poster that asked if Sunoco race fuel was available nearby as that would actually be cheaper than Klotz or Torco.
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#4589563 - 11/30/17 05:55 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 18953
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Anyone have experience with it? I want to avoid anything with MMT like Torco. Klotz in an email claimed it does not have MMT in it.

I did tune on ACES IV but sadly it did not allow me to tune anymore aggressively than regular 93 pump.


Wildly specific to the engine design and the state of tune. This includes the software.

AcesIV works fantastic in my car but it is not even remotely similar to yours. Knocked my KR down several points. The only product I use, and not for the street, just when I go to the strip.

And everyone should note that most programming seeks more timing to the threshold of knock...



Edited by SteveSRT8 (11/30/17 05:57 AM)
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#4589584 - 11/30/17 06:52 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: OneEyeJack]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If I understand ignition timing your engine is setup to advance and retard as planned by the CPU, your driving, and the ambient conditions. If your engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation the timing might be retarded as needed to protect itself, not to produce more power. Changing the octane rating of the fuel does not change the CPU programming but it might help reduce the effects of pre-ignition or detonation. Theoretically, this could produce a very small but difficult to measure amount of work during this time that the engine would otherwise be protecting itself and possibly even experiencing pumping losses. The CPU does not change its programming and do something like advancing the timing in the presence of higher octane fuel to produce more power. In other words, the CPU and ignition timing don't go looking for pre-ignition or detonation. Higher octane fuel or octane boosters are better suited to making your wallet a bit lighter.

Did this explanation confuse me or you?


This is not true in most modern vehicles, I worked on the electronics of a knock detection system in the last millennium for a major US OEM that used a closed loop to attempt to keep the engine in an area of extremely light knock that the driver could not even notice...we were told this was the sweet spot for power and fuel economy. I can't say it stayed in the sweet spot all the time, but it was cool to watch the prototype in the dyno respond to changes lickety split...this system gave the engine to respond to different octane levels on the fly, didn't need to be "told" the octane but it would adjust timing based on how the engine performed/shook.

This system was intended to be used across the OEM's gas engine product line, not just in performance and/or luxury vehicles. Believe it may have been needed for CARB requirements, I know that was true of the misfire system we did but I'm not 100% sure about the knock loop.


Edited by Virtus_Probi (11/30/17 06:54 AM)
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#4589773 - 11/30/17 11:29 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: Virtus_Probi]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
..... used a closed loop to attempt to keep the engine in an area of extremely light knock that the driver could not even notice...we were told this was the sweet spot for power and fuel economy.


100% correct.

When it comes to piston engines, if you are not living on the edge, you are giving up power and fuel economy.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4589777 - 11/30/17 11:32 AM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
Gimpy1 Offline


Registered: 08/24/17
Posts: 107
Loc: Displaced Texan in Mexico City
Why not add water meth injection from someone like snow performance? There are a ton of kits out there. I know alot of GTO guys with twin turbos or big Maggies that run those kits without any issues.

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#4590231 - 11/30/17 06:34 PM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: stevo585]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
Mix some e85 into your 93
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#4590250 - 11/30/17 06:51 PM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: Linctex]
stevo585 Offline


Registered: 08/26/17
Posts: 37
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: Linctex
What will you be using it in?


The car in my signature. Turbo Subaru BRZ.

Just so everyone knows it is custom tuned on Ecutek. It currently sees little to no knock but its extremely conservatively tuned. I'm no where near MBT which is about +10 degrees of timing advance. Only run 15 degrees now at .78 lambda.

I ran MMT based stuff before like torco it works just not sure of long term reliability with the abrasiveness of organometallics and that orange residue it coats everything in.
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M1 HM 10w-30, Subaru filter

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#4590255 - 11/30/17 06:54 PM Re: Klotz Octane Booster [Re: Gimpy1]
stevo585 Offline


Registered: 08/26/17
Posts: 37
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: Gimpy1
Why not add water meth injection from someone like snow performance? There are a ton of kits out there. I know alot of GTO guys with twin turbos or big Maggies that run those kits without any issues.


Probably what I'll end up doing. I could setup a flex fuel system for e85 but that requires bigger injectors, the sensor/wiring and fuel pump. The Meth injection kit is much cheaper and on demand. I use to run e85 before turbo and it made a nice difference since the motor is so octane limited but I moved and its not practical to daily e85 esp. since it only nets 18-20mpg. Hence Meth where it comes on only when needed..
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M1 HM 10w-30, Subaru filter

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