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Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? #4589171
11/29/17 07:29 PM
11/29/17 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline OP
SilverFusion2010  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
I know there are SAE 30 oils that meet 10w pumpability requirements. Is M1 one of these? The M1 HM is HTHS 3.5


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589197
11/29/17 07:51 PM
11/29/17 07:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
Given the very moderate price of M1 HM I'd doubt that the basestock blend used would support a 10W-30 grade qualification without VIIs, but I could be wrong.
Wouldn't mind were that so.


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589225
11/29/17 08:12 PM
11/29/17 08:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline OP
SilverFusion2010  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
I'm waiting for one of our formulators to chime in.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589238
11/29/17 08:17 PM
11/29/17 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
Given the MSDS lists 1-5% PAO:



I'm going to say no.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL] #4589259
11/29/17 08:35 PM
11/29/17 08:35 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
NickT29 Offline
NickT29  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.

Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589283
11/29/17 08:50 PM
11/29/17 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,908
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,908
'Stralia
No, it's not...149 VI is too high, and it's Calculated versus posted Absolute Viscosities show some Viscosity modification in it's make-up.

Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589284
11/29/17 08:52 PM
11/29/17 08:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
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Posts: 19,241
Iowegia - USA
No, it's a Multi-Grade in disguise. smile


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589288
11/29/17 08:55 PM
11/29/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline OP
SilverFusion2010  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
Oh well. It's still a strong shear stable oil


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29] #4589290
11/29/17 08:59 PM
11/29/17 08:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NickT29
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.


The percentages are a vague indication as to what should be in there, hence them being a range, that's why it is 1-5% and not 5%. For other oils that percentage is much higher, others show no PAO at all. It's not a bloody oil recipe, I think we all understand that, but it does give a very vague indication as to the amount of PAO that is in the mix, which in this case, is on the low side.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL] #4589328
11/29/17 09:53 PM
11/29/17 09:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,036
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,036
Virginia
Exactly OVERKILL.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29] #4589339
11/29/17 10:02 PM
11/29/17 10:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,626
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,626
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The percentages are completely arbitrary.


What, then, are they for?

Doesn't seem much point in publishing the numbers if they have no meaning.

Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL] #4589350
11/29/17 10:10 PM
11/29/17 10:10 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
NickT29 Offline
NickT29  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 10
USA
Deleted

Last edited by NickT29; 11/29/17 10:19 PM.
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29] #4589376
11/29/17 10:33 PM
11/29/17 10:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,186
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NickT29
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NickT29
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.


The percentages are a vague indication as to what should be in there, hence them being a range, that's why it is 1-5% and not 5%. For other oils that percentage is much higher, others show no PAO at all. It's not a bloody oil recipe, I think we all understand that, but it does give a very vague indication as to the amount of PAO that is in the mix, which in this case, is on the low side.


No it does not have to be a range, "A statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required". They can put whatever they want, because the mixture is a trade secret. As long as the hazardous material is listed in one form or another they meet the requirements for the regulations.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html


I think you and I are interpreting that very differently.

Under Section 3, which is the section we are discussing, it states:

Quote:

Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed:

A statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required.


This indicates that if an exact percentage is being withheld, a statement indicating that is the case is required.

Under that same section it states:

Quote:

The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
- A trade secret claim is made,
- There is batch-to-batch variation, or
- The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.


Batch-to-batch variation is the obvious stand-out here, as it applies to Motor oil, as does a trade secret claim, which is also present here, allowing Mobil to use a range rather than the exact percentage. That doesn't mean they can use whatever they want, but they can use a suitably vague range, which they are doing.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: bbhero] #4589380
11/29/17 10:35 PM
11/29/17 10:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
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Posts: 4,625
Down Under
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Exactly OVERKILL.

Yes, what OverKill said.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4589389
11/29/17 10:49 PM
11/29/17 10:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
The regular M1 10W30 with a HTHS of 3.0 cP lists 1-Decene Homopolymer Hydrogenated (PAO) as 10 to 20 % in it's MSDS.
https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/c1/c1527ca5-f9f3-4aa1-b2ca-a255804938ff.pdf

KV100 = 10.1 cSt
KV40 = 63.2 cSt
VI = 146

Would this carry a bit less VII than the M1 10W30 HM ?


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
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