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#4589171 - 11/29/17 06:29 PM Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise?
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
I know there are SAE 30 oils that meet 10w pumpability requirements. Is M1 one of these? The M1 HM is HTHS 3.5
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#4589197 - 11/29/17 06:51 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15687
Loc: OH
Given the very moderate price of M1 HM I'd doubt that the basestock blend used would support a 10W-30 grade qualification without VIIs, but I could be wrong.
Wouldn't mind were that so.
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#4589225 - 11/29/17 07:12 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
I'm waiting for one of our formulators to chime in.
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2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30

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#4589238 - 11/29/17 07:17 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Given the MSDS lists 1-5% PAO:



I'm going to say no.
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#4589259 - 11/29/17 07:35 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL]
NickT29 Offline


Registered: 05/23/17
Posts: 10
Loc: USA
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.

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#4589283 - 11/29/17 07:50 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39848
Loc: 'Stralia
No, it's not...149 VI is too high, and it's Calculated versus posted Absolute Viscosities show some Viscosity modification in it's make-up.

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#4589284 - 11/29/17 07:52 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
No, it's a Multi-Grade in disguise. smile

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#4589288 - 11/29/17 07:55 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
Oh well. It's still a strong shear stable oil
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2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30

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#4589290 - 11/29/17 07:59 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NickT29
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.


The percentages are a vague indication as to what should be in there, hence them being a range, that's why it is 1-5% and not 5%. For other oils that percentage is much higher, others show no PAO at all. It's not a bloody oil recipe, I think we all understand that, but it does give a very vague indication as to the amount of PAO that is in the mix, which in this case, is on the low side.
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#4589328 - 11/29/17 08:53 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4614
Loc: Virginia
Exactly OVERKILL.
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#4589339 - 11/29/17 09:02 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4334
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The percentages are completely arbitrary.


What, then, are they for?

Doesn't seem much point in publishing the numbers if they have no meaning.

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#4589350 - 11/29/17 09:10 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: OVERKILL]
NickT29 Offline


Registered: 05/23/17
Posts: 10
Loc: USA
Deleted


Edited by NickT29 (11/29/17 09:19 PM)

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#4589376 - 11/29/17 09:33 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: NickT29]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NickT29
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NickT29
That is not true. You cannot use the percentages on a safety data sheet for motor oil as a basis to conclude the percentage make up of the base stocks in it. Since the formula is proprietary, they only have to list it as being present if it is hazardous. The percentages are completely arbitrary.


The percentages are a vague indication as to what should be in there, hence them being a range, that's why it is 1-5% and not 5%. For other oils that percentage is much higher, others show no PAO at all. It's not a bloody oil recipe, I think we all understand that, but it does give a very vague indication as to the amount of PAO that is in the mix, which in this case, is on the low side.


No it does not have to be a range, "A statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required". They can put whatever they want, because the mixture is a trade secret. As long as the hazardous material is listed in one form or another they meet the requirements for the regulations.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html


I think you and I are interpreting that very differently.

Under Section 3, which is the section we are discussing, it states:

Quote:

Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed:

A statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required.


This indicates that if an exact percentage is being withheld, a statement indicating that is the case is required.

Under that same section it states:

Quote:

The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
- A trade secret claim is made,
- There is batch-to-batch variation, or
- The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.


Batch-to-batch variation is the obvious stand-out here, as it applies to Motor oil, as does a trade secret claim, which is also present here, allowing Mobil to use a range rather than the exact percentage. That doesn't mean they can use whatever they want, but they can use a suitably vague range, which they are doing.
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#4589380 - 11/29/17 09:35 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: bbhero]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4460
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Exactly OVERKILL.

Yes, what OverKill said.
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#4589389 - 11/29/17 09:49 PM Re: Is M1 HM 10w-30 a monograde in disguise? [Re: SilverFusion2010]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4460
Loc: Down Under
The regular M1 10W30 with a HTHS of 3.0 cP lists 1-Decene Homopolymer Hydrogenated (PAO) as 10 to 20 % in it's MSDS.
https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/c1/c1527ca5-f9f3-4aa1-b2ca-a255804938ff.pdf

KV100 = 10.1 cSt
KV40 = 63.2 cSt
VI = 146

Would this carry a bit less VII than the M1 10W30 HM ?
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