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#4588347 - 11/29/17 04:24 AM SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8895
Loc: Southeast Florida
Member Chris142 began an interesting thread recently, asking if monogrades were still offered by the major brands.

After taking a glance at current spec sheets, I see that these oils (SAE 30 in particular) have contemporary API approvals and are strictly designed towards wear protection (not MPG) in warmer ambient climates.

What would be the drawback in using these oils where winter temps rarely fall below 40f (SAE30) or 60f (SAE40)?


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#4588350 - 11/29/17 04:36 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39912
Loc: 'Stralia
wemay
SAE30 will do eveything you need in those ranges.

An SAE30 will be good to freezing (honestly 10 degrees below freezing likely), and has an HTHS of 3.4+, so is about as good as a 0W, 5W, 10W 40 at the top end, all without shear.

SAE40 is too thick...has the HTHS of M1 15W50...

There was a poster a long time ago, who was racing an old, oil burning Honda in a LeMons circle track endurance race. My recommendation for a constantly hot, oil burning, loose engine was SAE40.

I got lambasted...I still stand exactly by my recommendation rather than a high VI plastic 0W20, which was the ClapTrap being pushed by the lambaster.

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#4588352 - 11/29/17 04:53 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39912
Loc: 'Stralia


Although old data, the laws of physics with this regard don't change...

the S number is an adaptation of the Sommerfeld number in bearing design.
Normally S=(r/C)^2*u*N/P (r = shaft radius. C is clearance, u = viscosity, N=RPM, P = applied load/projected area).

In this instance, they've normalised it to the test engine, and "constanted" all the variables.

So film thickness in any given engine is increased by RPM, viscosity (HTHS), or reduction in load.

At the bottom end (note they don't cross at zero:zero) boundary is occuring (Stribeck curve), and wear is additive dependent)

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#4588369 - 11/29/17 05:27 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8895
Loc: Southeast Florida
Great info, thanks. It just doesn't make sense that a product this useful be relegated to the bottom, dusty shelves. This info is a revelation. And again, it isn't as if it doesn't have current specs, and at worst, API SM.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4588375 - 11/29/17 05:36 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Red91 Offline


Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 2126
Loc: Alabama, United States
A modern SAE 30 in your turbo/di cars, with a warm climate, sounds like the best thing no one is doing. Many argue obsolescence in regard to Mono's, but they fail to realize Mono's evolve just like multi's do. I wanted to try 10W-40 this winter in my station wagon to compare the cold start speed of the 30 I used last winter. It does spin up faster, and on particularly cold mornings there hasn't been any lifter noise, but honestly I attribute that to the larger Fram I used for this interval and not the oil. I'll probably run Havoline 30 next summer.
_________________________
'89 Chevy 1500
Napa 20/50
'15 Chevy Cruze
AcDelco syn dexos 5/30

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#4588431 - 11/29/17 07:09 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16832
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I like mono grades in the hotter weather. No real evidence other than my jeep is much quieter on it imo.
_________________________
02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40

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#4588440 - 11/29/17 07:17 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4468
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: wemay
monogrades ....... in warmer ambient climates.

What would be the drawback in using these oils where winter temps rarely fall below 40f (SAE30)


No problems and lots of advantages from what I can tell when above freezing (0C or 32f) for a SAE 30 monograde.

For me in Oz they are hard to find, over priced when you do find them, and often only SG or SJ rated.

For less money I can find stuff like Castrol Magnatec 10W30 semi-synthetic (SN & A3/B4) everywhere.

I want to run a monograde, but I never have because I feel silly paying more for a SG mineral SAE30, when I can pay less for Magnatec 10W30 A3/B4. But that is more a reflection of my market than the oil.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4588573 - 11/29/17 09:44 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5521
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Mono's are great where you can use them. They are so common in the marine industry, it's laughable about all the clap-trap around here about the joys of Multi's. Most boats don't freeze. The bilges stay above freezing with all the nearby water and gen-set heat, etc. So mono's are the norm.

You don't think those guys sitting on $50K~$150K engines do that because they are old and outdated do you? They are looking for the best wear numbers they can get.

I'll admit that modern multi's are getting close in terms of wear, but if you can safely use a mono grade, go for it. Your motor will be happy smile
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4588581 - 11/29/17 09:52 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
I ran Shell Rotella SAE 30 in my 4.6 F150 last year pulling a 9,800 lb 5th wheel RV through the hills of southern Oklahoma.

It performed wonderfully.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4588602 - 11/29/17 10:11 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
Maybe a synth 10W30 that doesn't use VII additives would be a good alternative to searching for a product that is labelled SAE30?
I think there has been some discussion on here about a synth SAE30 that could actually be marketed as a 10W30, think it was from Amsoil or one of the other US boutique blenders.
My wife abhors high temperatures and I may never live in a place that is warm year round, but I'd have no issue running an SAE30 if I lived in someplace like Florida, S Texas, or the USVI and never planned to drive someplace cold in the winter.


Edited by Virtus_Probi (11/29/17 10:12 AM)
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4588723 - 11/29/17 11:36 AM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: Virtus_Probi]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Maybe a synth 10W30 that doesn't use VII additives would be a good alternative to searching for a product that is labelled SAE30?
I think there has been some discussion on here about a synth SAE30 that could actually be marketed as a 10W30, think it was from Amsoil or one of the other US boutique blenders.
My wife abhors high temperatures and I may never live in a place that is warm year round, but I'd have no issue running an SAE30 if I lived in someplace like Florida, S Texas, or the USVI and never planned to drive someplace cold in the winter.


AMSOIL makes a 10w-30 that is actually an SAE 30. Redline's 5w-30 was purported to be VII-free as well.
_________________________
2016 Durango Limited
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT

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#4588887 - 11/29/17 01:25 PM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
KL31 Offline


Registered: 06/03/16
Posts: 549
Loc: South OZ
100% thinking the same as SR5. Perhaps as others have said though, the fully synthetic 10W30 from some boutique brands are actually mono but classify as 10W because of their cold start performance. All super expensive over here though!
_________________________
95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn

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#4589046 - 11/29/17 03:50 PM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: Linctex]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10049
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I ran Shell Rotella SAE 30 in my 4.6 F150 last year pulling a 9,800 lb 5th wheel RV through the hills of southern Oklahoma.

It performed wonderfully.


F150
5th wheel
9,800 lbs.

Wow. Cheers2

(Up here, I've seen 1 (one!) 1500/ F150 with a fifth wheel behind it. Usually they are the HD's. Let me tell you, that truck was working hard and squatting harder.)
_________________________
03 Jeep WJ 4.0 199k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 145k Rotella T5 10w30 Fram TG3980


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#4589150 - 11/29/17 06:01 PM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: wemay]
Silk Offline


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4565
Loc: New Zealand
Most people run 20W-50 in aircooled BMW twins, spans temps from minus 10 to over 30 c...but on the oil viscosity chart they also have mono grades, and have SAE 30 ranging from zero to 30 c, this is my temp zone, so am giving it some thought. There is a considerable difference in cSt @ 100c between a 20W-50 and a straight 30, but BMW thinks it's up to the job...is it ?
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

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#4589244 - 11/29/17 07:23 PM Re: SAE 30 and 40 for warmer climates [Re: SR5]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24601
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: SR5
For me in Oz they are hard to find, over priced when you do find them, and often only SG or SJ rated.

This is the problem, too. As per my rants about needing to buy oil in sale in Canada, the sales are usually on monogrades. You might find a jug of PYB for $12.88 or whatever for 5 quarts. That will be 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30 (and maybe not even 10w-30). There are no PYB SAE 30 5 quart jugs on the shelf.

One could get a 5 gallon pail of Walmart's house brand monograde or go to a distributor, and get a reasonable price in both instances, but that's a lot of oil for some people. Of course, our Walmarts sell SAE 30 in 5 gallon pails, but from what I understand, Walmarts in Texas don't (house brands are different in the two countries), where it would actually be a reasonable product to use.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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