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Engineering a LED Headlamp #4586500
11/27/17 12:29 PM
11/27/17 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
Here is an interesting article that gives some insight as to the engineering (at Renault) required to design and manufacture a LED headlamp at reduced cost. Hint: they are not just dropping a LED source into an existing halogen headlamp.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/pri...-with-leds.html

an excerpt:

Quote:
...Looking deeper at our general CFD-based thermal analysis approach that typically is used to optimize headlamp designs, we would normally be interested in predicting lighting performance at 23C outside the headlamp in ambient air and up to a maximum of 70C for the outside temperature for the outer boundary of LED reliability. To validate our simulations, we performed some experiments where we fixed the ambient temperature outside the headlamp at 23C and installed eight thermocouples outside the assembly for a car with its engine on and off...

...We concluded that it was not possible to design an LED system if we were to take into account all the use cases. The OEM must therefore define the best compromise. For example, at 23C after one hour of engine idling, lighting performance was shown to be at 100%, but if the ambient temperature rose to 50C for the same situation, the lighting performance would go down to 80%. To respect this specification, we concluded that a thermal sensor had to be added to the PCB (printed circuit board) so the current could be reduced if the temperature at the LED was greater than a threshold we would define. We could then do a thermal derating and a flux derating of the full LED headlamp...

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: SubLGT] #4586504
11/27/17 12:35 PM
11/27/17 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
With all the hoopla around LED headlights, it seems like they are performing poorly in real life, based on IIHS headlight test scores. Either the IIHS has set some unrealistic expectations, or the manufacturers still have a lot of work to do in the headlight department.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Quattro Pete] #4586512
11/27/17 12:41 PM
11/27/17 12:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
... the manufacturers still have a lot of work to do in the headlight department.


Ford comes to mind as having some poor LED headlights on the F150 (excessive glare combined with inadequate illumination). But there are also good OEM LED headlight out there, according to IIHS. IIHS testing protocol will usually lower the test score on headlights if they come from the factory misaimed.

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: SubLGT] #4586523
11/27/17 12:57 PM
11/27/17 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,323
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,323
Santa Barbara, CA
My issue with LED headlamps and taillamps, at least in the brands I do parts for which is Ford and Mazda is there are no serviceable bulbs. If you have a light go out, you have to replace the entire assembly. The F-150 LED housings are around $928 which does not include the ballast.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: bdcardinal] #4586536
11/27/17 01:05 PM
11/27/17 01:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
Have you sold a lot of the LED ones for failed bulbs? They're *supposed* to last a long time.

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: bdcardinal] #4586543
11/27/17 01:09 PM
11/27/17 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 728
indianapolis in
bmwjohn Offline
bmwjohn  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 728
indianapolis in
having purchased a good many Chinese lights for various vehicles, ALL of which have been good, I strongly suspect a popular vehicle like F150 will quickly acquire several clone headlights at very good prices. The only aftermarket lights I have had problems with were for older Volvo's 3rd party lights made in Estonia. $928 is a price point many Chinese would love to beat and still make a profit.

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Ethan1] #4586547
11/27/17 01:20 PM
11/27/17 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,323
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,323
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Have you sold a lot of the LED ones for failed bulbs? They're *supposed* to last a long time.


Just to body shops who have a meltdown at the price difference because insurance usually only authorizes money to cover halogen assemblies.

There is a service campaign for Mercury Milans that have LED taillamps that offers extended coverage. Have sold a fair amount of those under the campaign.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: SubLGT] #4586787
11/27/17 05:20 PM
11/27/17 05:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,896
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,896
NE,Ohio
All I notice lately is they are like lasers..

super bright and blinding but you cant see off to the sides for DEER etc.

Oh and just wait a few years until cars with "high beam assist" start getting older and its not working good.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Rand] #4586822
11/27/17 06:24 PM
11/27/17 06:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,156
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,156
USA
Originally Posted By: Rand
All I notice lately is they are like lasers..

super bright and blinding but you cant see off to the sides for DEER etc.

Oh and just wait a few years until cars with "high beam assist" start getting older and its not working good.



Augh.

I'm blinded enough by totally oblivious drivers in Hyundais and then brotrucks with a 12in lift.

It has me thinking I should just run around with my highbeams on all the time if we're all just racing to the bottom.

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Quattro Pete] #4586923
11/27/17 08:08 PM
11/27/17 08:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Under the hood
Carmudgeon Offline
Carmudgeon  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 583
Under the hood
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
... the manufacturers still have a lot of work to do in the headlight department.


That has always been true, regardless of the technology.

Juggling the balance between the demands of regulations, stylists, and accountants in order to produce soemthing that performs well, looks good, and is cheap to make doesn't always end in good results.

The are good and bad examples of every type and application.


Consumers are the ones who pay the price when the actual lifetimes don't meet the ones expected, or when other circumstances require replacement, such as when insurance coverage is only sufficient for aftermarket or other "LKQ" junk that isn't of the same quality or performance.

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: SubLGT] #4587552
11/28/17 01:20 PM
11/28/17 01:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
But there are also good OEM LED headlight out there, according to IIHS.

In 2016, they only gave one "good" rating...
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnew...eed-improvement



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Quattro Pete] #4588598
11/29/17 11:09 AM
11/29/17 11:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,648
Idaho
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
But there are also good OEM LED headlight out there, according to IIHS.

In 2016, they only gave one "good" rating...
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnew...ed-improvement.


If IIHS aimed the headlights before testing, more of them would get a "good" rating.

Quote:
Using the data and protocols provided by the IIHS, Dr. John Bullough, Director of Transportation and Safety Lighting Programs at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institutes Lighting Research Center, performed some post-hoc analyses of the data. He shows in his editorial that demerit scores tended to be better when headlights were aimed properly and worse when the headlights were aimed either too high or too low. Though not all of the variation in headlight performance can be attributed to aiming, it was a meaningful factor. The number of systems rated as acceptable or good would have doubled if they had been correctly aimed.


http://newsroom.taylorandfrancisgroup.co...ty#.V6LCV-mmReV

Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: SubLGT] #4588739
11/29/17 12:50 PM
11/29/17 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,290
Great Lakes
Thanks. This makes it sound like we have some widespread epidemic of incorrectly aimed headlights straight from the factory. If that is indeed true, that is appalling to me that manufacturers can't get this right.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Engineering a LED Headlamp [Re: Quattro Pete] #4590996
12/01/17 01:42 PM
12/01/17 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 652
Wash, DC
circuitsmith Offline
circuitsmith  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 652
Wash, DC
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
This makes it sound like we have some widespread epidemic of incorrectly aimed headlights straight from the factory.


This is covered in Nader's "Unsafe At Any Speed", believe it or not.
It wasn't just bout the Corvair.


2017 Hyundai Tucson SE FWD, 5000mi/12mo OCI

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