Recent Topics
Breaking in new short block
by Bub
06/22/18 07:00 PM
Should I buy a mill or a drill press?
by Vern_in_IL
06/22/18 06:32 PM
Weber Q300 Grill Parts Help
by gathermewool
06/22/18 05:24 PM
I Had To Tell Somebody- Banquet
by Zee09
06/22/18 05:13 PM
Xfinity mobile cell service
by jay929
06/22/18 04:37 PM
Fuse "failure"
by dlundblad
06/22/18 04:32 PM
Do you Bluetooth your phone and car?
by ZZman
06/22/18 04:20 PM
Hastings air filters
by Spitter
06/22/18 04:18 PM
2011 Town and Country remote started itself.
by mrsilv04
06/22/18 04:06 PM
Vaughan Hammer and Superbar $10 Sam's
by hatt
06/22/18 04:03 PM
Denso Oil filter - outsourced / quality changed
by 92saturnsl2
06/22/18 02:37 PM
Bench Drill Press
by Propflux01
06/22/18 02:30 PM
IAT Sensor
by artbuc
06/22/18 02:26 PM
2013 Nissan Rogue, 5,100 miles, Supertech Conv
by TheOilWizard
06/22/18 01:46 PM
NC License Plates
by Zee09
06/22/18 01:31 PM
BITOG Hotline!
by Duffyjr
06/22/18 01:30 PM
Switching Additives: Flush/Rinse?
by Phishin
06/22/18 12:46 PM
increasing viscosity
by VQLT
06/22/18 12:31 PM
Who's up on their metallurgy?
by earlyre
06/22/18 11:56 AM
Replaced halogen headlight with LED
by gman2304
06/22/18 11:18 AM
Newest Members
Fatbrowndog0822, DRNJR, ZEK, Dudewayne, kmdz
65294 Registered Users
Who's Online
73 registered (77GrandPrix, 2009Edge, AandPDan, alphadog, 2004tdigls, 13 invisible), 1416 Guests and 63 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65294 Members
67 Forums
285792 Topics
4769626 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4583870 - 11/24/17 05:41 PM Opinions on bubble balancers.
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 3207
Loc: southern mo
My thread about tires got me thinking. How accurate are bubble balancers for modern day applications? I hate dealing with tire shop techs as most of them aren't very knowledgeable on their job. How accurate could one be with a bubble balancer?
_________________________
2014 dodge dart GT "mine"
2013 Dodge Dart limited "hers"
1995 Dodge ram 1500



Top
#4583883 - 11/24/17 05:58 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
Kira Online   content


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5250
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
My understanding is that you can be very accurate with a bubble balancer but you can only balance "on a 2 dimensional plane" with one.

A spinning tire (remember, they spin when you use them) has weighted spots resulting in thrusts moving side-to-side throughout the width of a wheel.

In practical terms you can get close but never perfect. That's why every tire shop has a spin balancer.

Road force balancing is even better (they say) but many tire places get by just fine without 'em.

NOTE: I was in a family run tire shop (Nyack, NY) that other day and mentioned road force balancing. They acted like I was asking them to change their religion.
"We don't need no stinking road force balancer" was my interpretation.

Top
#4583893 - 11/24/17 06:06 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: Kira]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 3207
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Kira
My understanding is that you can be very accurate with a bubble balancer but you can only balance "on a 2 dimensional plane" with one.

A spinning tire (remember, they spin when you use them) has weighted spots resulting in thrusts moving side-to-side throughout the width of a wheel.

In practical terms you can get close but never perfect. That's why every tire shop has a spin balancer.

Road force balancing is even better (they say) but many tire places get by just fine without 'em.

NOTE: I was in a family run tire shop (Nyack, NY) that other day and mentioned road force balancing. They acted like I was asking them to change their religion.
"We don't need no stinking road force balancer" was my interpretation.



Thats hilarious. Our darts have stick on weights and it seems like they constantly throw weights and most shops have stupid Tech's. I'm contemplating doing it myself with a bubble balancer and seeing how close I can get it the wife just had her balanced a month ago and it's shaking again. The shops will do it for free but the time and trouble is annoying.
_________________________
2014 dodge dart GT "mine"
2013 Dodge Dart limited "hers"
1995 Dodge ram 1500



Top
#4583894 - 11/24/17 06:06 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: Kira]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 3207
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Kira
My understanding is that you can be very accurate with a bubble balancer but you can only balance "on a 2 dimensional plane" with one.

A spinning tire (remember, they spin when you use them) has weighted spots resulting in thrusts moving side-to-side throughout the width of a wheel.

In practical terms you can get close but never perfect. That's why every tire shop has a spin balancer.

Road force balancing is even better (they say) but many tire places get by just fine without 'em.

NOTE: I was in a family run tire shop (Nyack, NY) that other day and mentioned road force balancing. They acted like I was asking them to change their religion.
"We don't need no stinking road force balancer" was my interpretation.



Thats hilarious. Our darts have stick on weights and it seems like they constantly throw weights and most shops have stupid Tech's. I'm contemplating doing it myself with a bubble balancer and seeing how close I can get it the wife just had her balanced a month ago and it's shaking again. The shops will do it for free but the time and trouble is annoying.
_________________________
2014 dodge dart GT "mine"
2013 Dodge Dart limited "hers"
1995 Dodge ram 1500



Top
#4583959 - 11/24/17 07:28 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41789
Loc: New Jersey
Darts are far from the only vehicles with stick on weights.

Prep is key.

Top
#4583960 - 11/24/17 07:30 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32640
Loc: ME
The less aspect you have the less good a static balance will do you.

What are you running, 40-series?

Take the brake pads off your rear hub and you have your own static balancer, just put weights up top until "up top" changes every time.

Top
#4583972 - 11/24/17 07:43 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15702
Loc: OH
Back in the day, bubble balancers were what we had.
They worked just fine and I drove many smooth miles on static balanced tires.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

Top
#4583974 - 11/24/17 07:45 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: JHZR2]
Seventh Offline


Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 234
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: ram_man
How accurate could one be with a bubble balancer?



Nowhere even remotely close to as good as a 20 year old motorized wheel balancer.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Prep is key.


This

I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen stick on weights come off by themselves in over 20 years working on cars professionally. Either caused by lack of prep work on the wheel, or you have a vibration causing the weight to get tossed. Aside from the adhesive, centrifugal force helps hold them in place.

Is this the Dart from the forever vibration thread a while back that nobody can fix ? ...

Top
#4583998 - 11/24/17 08:15 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16824
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I used to work at a tire shop that had a bubble balancer and a hub on a pipe. With that you marked the low spot then added weights till the tire stoped in a different spot every time. Never had any complaints.

I dont know about road force balancing. I have never had a problem with a rwgular spin balancer. I dont drive real fast either.
_________________________
02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40

Top
#4584024 - 11/24/17 08:59 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: JHZR2]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 3207
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Darts are far from the only vehicles with stick on weights.

Prep is key.


No I know but it does seem like they are very sensitive to a lazy balance or even a slightly warped rotor ect. They do seem picky.
_________________________
2014 dodge dart GT "mine"
2013 Dodge Dart limited "hers"
1995 Dodge ram 1500



Top
#4584025 - 11/24/17 09:00 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: Seventh]
ram_man Offline


Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 3207
Loc: southern mo
Originally Posted By: Seventh
Originally Posted By: ram_man
How accurate could one be with a bubble balancer?



Nowhere even remotely close to as good as a 20 year old motorized wheel balancer.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Prep is key.


This

I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen stick on weights come off by themselves in over 20 years working on cars professionally. Either caused by lack of prep work on the wheel, or you have a vibration causing the weight to get tossed. Aside from the adhesive, centrifugal force helps hold them in place.

Is this the Dart from the forever vibration thread a while back that nobody can fix ? ...


Nope it's not
_________________________
2014 dodge dart GT "mine"
2013 Dodge Dart limited "hers"
1995 Dodge ram 1500



Top
#4584093 - 11/24/17 10:31 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 4737
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Keep looking. Ive never had trouble with stick on weights.
_________________________
2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967


Top
#4584106 - 11/24/17 11:01 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: fdcg27]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Back in the day, bubble balancers were what we had.
They worked just fine and I drove many smooth miles on static balanced tires.
How far back was that? "Back in the day" of the early 1960's (and maybe a long time before that), well-equipped shops already had dynamic balancers. Bubble balancers, (if competently used) gave better results "back in the day" than they can now, because tires and wheels are generally wider now.

If a hypothetical tire is perfectly balanced except for one heavy spot on the left side, and another equally heavy spot on the right side 180 degrees around the circumference from the first one, it would show up as perfectly balanced on a bubble balancer, or any other static method. Yet, it would shake the car. The wider the tire (i.e., the farther apart the aforementioned hypothetical heavy spots are in the axial dimension), the worse the imbalance and consequent vibration.


Edited by CR94 (11/24/17 11:02 PM)
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius now at 88K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

Top
#4584108 - 11/24/17 11:09 PM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
joegreen Offline


Registered: 03/10/13
Posts: 760
Loc: NY
I picked up an old bishman air bubble balancer off Craigslist for a good price. I was going to go with a harbor freight bubble balancer but am glad I did not. Instead of the wheel and bubble top resting on a small pin like the harbor freight balancer the air balancer top rides on a cushion of air. Its basically like zero friction where it pivots. It's so sensitive I swear dust throws it off. I would look for an air bubble balancer if you want a bubble balancer.
_________________________
1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le

Top
#4584195 - 11/25/17 06:48 AM Re: Opinions on bubble balancers. [Re: ram_man]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 981
Loc: iowa
I hope you do get a bubble balancer, so you can tell us how great it works, and all of the time and trouble it saves you. Placing stick-on weights with the wheel facing down would be interesting too, along with centering the wheel on the stepped hub bore so many alloy wheels use anymore. Bubble balancers worked great long ago with zero-offset wheels that were only 5 inches wide, but maybe you will get lucky, and it will keep you busy for quite a while.
_________________________
Tire Industry Association Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >