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New generations of oils begin to take hold #4580695
11/21/17 06:56 AM
11/21/17 06:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
http://www.fleetowner.com/lubricants/new-generations-oils-begin-take-hold

Excerpts...

Thinner but just as durable
Several years of industry collaboration yielded two variations of the next generation of oil—CK-4 and FA-4.

“The oils are thinner but just as durable and are able to withstand a high-shear engine environment,” said Brian Humphrey, OEM technical liaison at Petro-Canada Lubricants. Higher fuel economy “can be achieved because lower viscosity oil means less friction in the engine, leading to a reduction in both fuel consumption and [carbon dioxide] emissions—while still offering exceptional levels of wear protection.”

Back Spec'ng
"API’s Ferrick said while Detroit Diesel recommended use of FA-4 in its latest engines from the start, other manufacturers are taking a more cautious approach, and are “looking to get a little more assurance FA-4 is suitable.”

Some of the hesitation involves the limited backwards compatibility of FA-4, because some older engines are not designed for low viscosity oils.

The latest engines have slightly more finely polished surfaces on critical parts, according to Valvoline. These surfaces can tolerate the slightly thinner film of oil produced by FA-4 because of its lower viscosity.

“Unless a fleet has all [Detroit Diesel] series engines, they really are kind of handcuffed,” said Paul Cigala, applications engineer for commercial vehicles at ExxonMobil"


Mixing FA-4 with CK-4
“Take great care not to mix FA-4 with CK-4. Co-mingling will adversely impact the viscosity grade of the FA-4 oil, and that is part of the reason they are getting FA-4 oil in the first place,” he said.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4580748
11/21/17 08:13 AM
11/21/17 08:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,761
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,761
Upstate NY
And then there is Ford Powerstroke and CK-4 oil concerns.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4580836
11/21/17 10:08 AM
11/21/17 10:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 203
A Highway Near You
PiperOne Offline
PiperOne  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 203
A Highway Near You
I'm holding off using any FA-4 oils even though I'm a fuel economy nut. I'm just switching over to CK-4 in a month or two...and despite Chevron lowering the Z/Phos so they can keep their SN rating...I'm going to try it and see how it looks. I was contemplating switching to Rotella as most of its formulations kept the Phos. Of the other fleet guys I know...no one is switching to FA-4 yet. A few run 10w30, a few run syns (me too) but no one is FA-4.

Interesting to note about the Powerstrokes...I see the Motorcraft oil now says right on the front of the jug "over 1000 ppm Phosphorus for excellent wear control".


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4580841
11/21/17 10:16 AM
11/21/17 10:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,852
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,852
Texas
How is the shift to thinner lubricants related to closer machining clearances ?

Thanks , :-)


Wyr
God bless
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4580931
11/21/17 12:00 PM
11/21/17 12:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Why take a chance back spec'ng oil? The speculation on mpg gains can't be worth the risk. If there was a slight improvement it might be lost to increased wear. The smart move is no move.

Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4581048
11/21/17 02:21 PM
11/21/17 02:21 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 577
Palmyra, PA
kmrcstintn Offline
kmrcstintn  Offline
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 577
Palmyra, PA
for folks that want to avoid newer formulated oils...grab supertech 15w-40 at walmart or traveller 15w-40 from tractor supply co. (warren performance products) or lubrigard 15w-40 at autozone (warren oil co); most of current stock is still cj-4; I grabbed 3 gallons of traveller a few months back @ $7.50/gallon & a gallon of lubrigard @ $11.99/gallon for use in the motorcycle & scooter


'15 Jeep Patriot Sport (2.4L 4-cyl), '13 Genuine Buddy 125 (125cc air-cooled thumper), '14 Yamaha V Star 250 (250cc air cooled v-twin)
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: PiperOne] #4581355
11/21/17 08:42 PM
11/21/17 08:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,424
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,424
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: PiperOne
I'm holding off using any FA-4 oils even though I'm a fuel economy nut.

I'm wondering if we'll see any 5w-30 FA-4 options. I know we see them in CJ-4 and CK-4, but I haven't seen them in FA-4 yet.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: Garak] #4581914
11/22/17 02:16 PM
11/22/17 02:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Solarent Offline
Solarent  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 945
Toronto ON
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: PiperOne
I'm holding off using any FA-4 oils even though I'm a fuel economy nut.

I'm wondering if we'll see any 5w-30 FA-4 options. I know we see them in CJ-4 and CK-4, but I haven't seen them in FA-4 yet.


DA, Phillips 66, and ExxonMobil are registered according to the API.

The Delvac product is: Mobil Delvac 1 Advanced Fuel Economy
5W30 FA-4 on EOLCS

Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: Solarent] #4582280
11/22/17 08:27 PM
11/22/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,424
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,424
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Nice. I haven't seen any of those, even the Delvac 1 on my Imperial Oil sell sheet.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New generations of oils begin to take hold [Re: wemay] #4751570
05/08/18 08:51 PM
05/08/18 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,037
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,037
pa
not for my $$$


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