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Oil dilution #4579984
11/20/17 11:12 AM
11/20/17 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
WyrTwister Offline OP
WyrTwister  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
None of our vehicles have Direct Injection , but wondering about oil dilution by gasoline .

If a person was doing mostly highway miles , would the heat help evaporate the gasoline out of the oil ?

Thanks , :-0


Wyr
God bless
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580003
11/20/17 11:26 AM
11/20/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Still asking about dilution in DI engines, or are you wondering about non-DI?

In port-injected engines there's gotta be something bad wrong with the fuel system, or a ton of sub-operating-temperature driving for fuel in the oil to become a problem. In DI, obviously, it's of more concern either way but highway miles minimize it purely from the basic concepts of more efficient combustion under those conditions.

Last edited by Alex_V; 11/20/17 11:27 AM.

To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580052
11/20/17 12:16 PM
11/20/17 12:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
redbone3 Offline
redbone3  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
None of our vehicles have Direct Injection , but wondering about oil dilution by gasoline .

If a person was doing mostly highway miles , would the heat help evaporate the gasoline out of the oil ?

Thanks , :-0


Yes


2014 Passat Wolfsburg, 1995 Miata.
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580065
11/20/17 12:35 PM
11/20/17 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,828
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,828
Marshfield , MA
Yes. EFI is very stingy with excess fuel. In a decently maintained engine fuel dilution is less than 1% according to the oil analysis reports.


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580082
11/20/17 12:58 PM
11/20/17 12:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
A long, long time ago cars survived with carburetors that dumped excess gasoline into the intake system because of less than precise fuel metering often opting for too rich to allow the engine to run smoothly. It's true. And the gasoline mixed in the oil would evaporate as the engine heated up the next time it was driven. Oil change intervals were 3K miles and before that 2K miles and that worked well enough to take care of the dilution.

The problem with trying to figure out if fuel dilution today is really a problem is that you start with lab testing that may be trend accurate and not sample accurate. This means that an error on a test is about the same error on every test so the trend is more accurate than any single test. More than one test would be good.

Next is the idea that the lab test is a snapshot and does not reflect an average or capture the highest percentage. There might also be periods of driving where the percentage is really bad but clears up as the workload increases. In other words, you might have a problem that would never be detected by lab work. You have to speculate that there might be a problem.

What we need is some help from BITOG members to figure out a realistic plan for determining the extent of fuel dilution that might include driving conditions, driver habits, engine configuration and lab results. Next would be, how to reduce the problem knowing that eliminating the problem completely is not feasible. The solution might include modification of driving habits, oil selection, oil change intervals, an occasional Italian tuneup, gasoline additives and lab work.

Only those OCD owners would even think about something like this but this is what makes BITOG the Website that it is today.

Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580115
11/20/17 01:48 PM
11/20/17 01:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,829
.
I think part of the issue with fuel dilution in modern DI/TGDI engines is that the dilution is not an accident and doesn't only occur on start-up. To prevent LSPI and respond to regular spark knock, fuel injection timing and richness is adjusted, which can lead to fuel dilution even during constant Interstate driving. So, even if some of the fuel is evaporated away, it is replaced by fresh dilution.

And once fuel mixes with engine oil it is surprisingly difficult to get rid of. Many gasoline components have evaporation temperatures higher than typical sump temperatures, so a good part of it will stay around for the balance of the OCI.

If one wanted to be cynical, it would be easy to assume OEMs are avoiding catastrophic engine damage during warranty (LSPI) by sacrificing long-term durability caused by fuel dilution (out of warranty). And while it's true that fuel dilution was probably common in the carburetor days, engine durability wasn't so great then either.

There are so many variables it seems all we can do it wait and see how DI/TGDI engines age. And wait and see if there are a rash of reprograms once dexos1Gen2 oils or ILSAC equivalents are the only oils available.

Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580150
11/20/17 02:43 PM
11/20/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
WyrTwister Offline OP
WyrTwister  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
I have heard EFI is one of the reasons gas engines seem to last longer than they did in my youth .


Wyr
God bless
Re: Oil dilution [Re: OneEyeJack] #4580224
11/20/17 04:18 PM
11/20/17 04:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,525
Iowegia - USA
[quote=OneEyeJack]A long, long time ago cars survived with carburetors that dumped excess gasoline into the intake system because of less than precise fuel metering often opting for too rich to allow the engine to run smoothly. It's true. And the gasoline mixed in the oil would evaporate as the engine heated up the next time it was driven. Oil change intervals were 3K miles and before that 2K miles and that worked well enough to take care of the dilution.

The problem with trying to figure out if fuel dilution today is really a problem is that you start with lab testing that may be trend accurate and not sample accurate. This means that an error on a test is about the same error on every test so the trend is more accurate than any single test. More than one test would be good.

Next is the idea that the lab test is a snapshot and does not reflect an average or capture the highest percentage. There might also be periods of driving where the percentage is really bad but clears up as the workload increases. In other words, you might have a problem that would never be detected by lab work. You have to speculate that there might be a problem.

What we need is some help from BITOG members to figure out a realistic plan for determining the extent of fuel dilution that might include driving conditions, driver habits, engine configuration and lab results. Next would be, how to reduce the problem knowing that eliminating the problem completely is not feasible. The solution might include modification of driving habits, oil selection, oil change intervals, an occasional Italian tuneup, gasoline additives and lab work.

Only those OCD owners would even think about something like this but this is what makes BITOG the Website that it is today.

[quote]


thumbsup


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4580234
11/20/17 04:32 PM
11/20/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
WyrTwister Offline OP
WyrTwister  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
I have heard EFI is one of the reasons gas engines seem to last longer than they did in my youth .


When all the gas engines ran carburetors .


Wyr
God bless
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4581310
11/21/17 06:55 PM
11/21/17 06:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,258
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,258
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
On the old F-150, I would have traded the feedback carb for a direct injection system in a heartbeat, if it were so possible.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4581703
11/22/17 08:38 AM
11/22/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
WyrTwister Offline OP
WyrTwister  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,100
Texas
I grew up with cars with carbs . I hated the automatic chokes , always too much or not enough . And , often they would stick , not opening up all the way . After the engine had warmed up .

1989 Chevy Cavalier was our first new car ( bought at the end of the model year ) and first car with Electric Fuel Injection .

At that time period , my Wife was working in the kitchen , at one of the school cafaterias . She left for work in the AM , earlier than I did .

In the cold of winter , often I had to get up and get dressed & go out & start the car for her & keep it running long enough to warm up enough to keep it running .

The Cavalier , with Throttle Body Injection , summer or winter , she went out to the car , inserted the key and with in 1 or 2 revolutions , it started & it would continue to run .

I have no experience with direct injection and am not in a hurry to experience it . If or when we buy a car with direct injection , hopefully they will have the bugs worked out of it .

Happy Thanksgiving and the best to you all , :-)


Wyr
God bless
Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4581753
11/22/17 10:12 AM
11/22/17 10:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
I grew up with cars with carbs . I hated the automatic chokes , always too much or not enough . And , often they would stick , not opening up all the way . After the engine had warmed up .

1989 Chevy Cavalier was our first new car ( bought at the end of the model year ) and first car with Electric Fuel Injection .

At that time period , my Wife was working in the kitchen , at one of the school cafaterias . She left for work in the AM , earlier than I did .

In the cold of winter , often I had to get up and get dressed & go out & start the car for her & keep it running long enough to warm up enough to keep it running .

The Cavalier , with Throttle Body Injection , summer or winter , she went out to the car , inserted the key and with in 1 or 2 revolutions , it started & it would continue to run .

I have no experience with direct injection and am not in a hurry to experience it . If or when we buy a car with direct injection , hopefully they will have the bugs worked out of it .

Happy Thanksgiving and the best to you all , :-)

Amen, brother.
Last car with a carb. 1980 Chevy Citation. Horrible in the winter. Next car, 1985 VW Golf with FI. Never a hiccup.

Re: Oil dilution [Re: WyrTwister] #4609764
12/20/17 10:21 PM
12/20/17 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 42
Spocant WA
silverbar Offline
silverbar  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 42
Spocant WA
As answered, it somewhat depends on driving habits and oil change interval, etc. Also has to do with condition of carb. Worn throttle (butterfly) bushings can cause the mixture to run rich, as can poorly set up carbs. SU carbs can be set up wrong (float level too high) so they will always gulp too much fuel no matter how you try and adjust mixture. Yes, driving the car on highway or well warmed up for long drives can evaporate off the gas if the rich problem is minor or just happens occasionally when too much choke used too long. How do you tell if the carb is dramatically out of tune or otherwise dumping to much fuel while seeming to run well? Use the sniff test and look at your spark plugs. If you are satisfied you drive the car enough and in conditions that should "boil" off the gasoline from the oil, and yet the oil still smells like somebody dumped gasoline in the sump, then your carbs are dumping too much fuel in there and no amount of running around will get rid of it. Sure fire test is to change the oil and filter element, then go for a long highway drive and park it in the garage after, and if the oil stinks like gasoline when you check it in the morning you got a carb problem.


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