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#4579870 - 11/20/17 09:12 AM 20w-50 and straight 50
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
Without getting into the why, just from a technical perspective, what happens when you mix straight mineral SAE 50 with 20w-50?

Mayne 2 qts of each? Or 3 qts SAE 50 with 1 qt 20w-50?

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#4579874 - 11/20/17 09:22 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
2004tdigls Offline


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 484
Loc: maple ridge, bc

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#4579900 - 11/20/17 09:52 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 562
Loc: NJ, USA
You'll have 4 quarts of 50 weight engine oil of a questionable winter viscosity rating. Probably either 20W or 25W.

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#4579925 - 11/20/17 10:13 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: MotoTribologist]
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
Good to see you here MT, I was hoping you'd respond.

OK, now the reason why -- this is a 40 year old motor that has an honest running compression check of 215 pounds on one cylinder and a little over 230 on the other. Stock head bolts didn't cut it, had to go to aftermarket bolts to stop blowing head gaskets and vaporizing aluminum mating surface.

It is kickstart only, it will break the back tire loose on dry pavement while already rolling without touching the clutch, and when it is hot it bleeds 20w-50 from everywhere but it only leaks about a quart every 750 to 1,000 miles on straight 60. I am OK with that, I have to be, there is no practical way to fix the problem.

But in the winter, well, kick starting that bike below about 50 degrees is just comical, below 40 degrees it's not even worth trying.

I'm going to do a little mixology and will report back.

Thanks!

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#4579933 - 11/20/17 10:19 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: 2004tdigls]
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
Cool website -- thanks!

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#4580648 - 11/21/17 01:54 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
Atesz792 Offline


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 291
Loc: European Union
How about some Amsoil SAE60? It's supposed to behave like a 20w or 25w in cold-but-worth-riding temps. Or so dealers say..
You could use the same oil all year, but I'm sure it's expensive.
_________________________
2004 Suzuki GS500F
2006 Renault Mégane 1.5 dci

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#4581058 - 11/21/17 01:28 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 564
Loc: Palmyra, PA
pennzoil makes a 25w-50 racing oil...might be worth a try

walmart website lists it & it can be shipped to stores for pickup

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-GT-P...13=&veh=sem
_________________________
'15 Jeep Patriot Sport (2.4L 4-cyl), '13 Genuine Buddy 125 (125cc air-cooled thumper), '14 Yamaha V Star 250 (250cc air cooled v-twin)

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#4583857 - 11/24/17 05:23 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: kmrcstintn]
Robenstein Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 5653
Loc: Central IA
Originally Posted By: kmrcstintn
pennzoil makes a 25w-50 racing oil...might be worth a try

walmart website lists it & it can be shipped to stores for pickup

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-GT-P...13=&veh=sem


That is some good stuff. We use it on our methanol injected drag car.
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#4584036 - 11/24/17 09:13 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4336
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: CCI
Without getting into the why, just from a technical perspective, what happens when you mix straight mineral SAE 50 with 20w-50?

Mayne 2 qts of each? Or 3 qts SAE 50 with 1 qt 20w-50?



I do that with straight 40 and 15/40, but I never see sub-zero temperatures.

I can see some ways it might be better (less shear and ring gum mostly) but I can't see why it'd be better for you than 20w50 if your concern is leakage, unless you're only hoping to reduce leakage while its warming up.

Isn't the effective viscosity at operating temperature going to be the same?


Edited by Ducked (11/24/17 09:16 PM)

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#4584398 - 11/25/17 10:58 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: Ducked]
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
Isn't the effective viscosity at operating temperature going to be the same?

I've always thought so, but it seems there must be more to the story. 20w-50 turns very thin and comes out all over at 100 degrees ambient, while the SAE 60 stays in rather well except for the bigger holes. The motor sounds awful at running temp with 20w-50, sounds good with 60.

Or 50 in colder weather.

I have no idea.

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#4584825 - 11/25/17 07:19 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4336
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: CCI
Isn't the effective viscosity at operating temperature going to be the same?

I've always thought so, but it seems there must be more to the story. 20w-50 turns very thin and comes out all over at 100 degrees ambient, while the SAE 60 stays in rather well except for the bigger holes. The motor sounds awful at running temp with 20w-50, sounds good with 60.

Or 50 in colder weather.

I have no idea.


I'm not completely clear on this but I THINK VII's can show temporary shear-induced loss of viscosity, which isn't shown by straight weight oil, so maybe that's part of the difference.


Edited by Ducked (11/25/17 07:19 PM)

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#4585009 - 11/25/17 10:38 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
David_g Offline


Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 143
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: CCI
20w-50 turns very thin and comes out all over at 100 degrees ambient, while the SAE 60 stays in rather well except for the bigger holes. The motor sounds awful at running temp with 20w-50, sounds good with 60.

Redline makes 20W60.
_________________________
2007 BMW R1200R (Mobil 1 15W50, Red Line Shockproof Heavy, Supertech 75W90)
2016 Honda Africa Twin DCT (Motul 5100 10W40)

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#4586149 - 11/26/17 09:23 PM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: Ducked]
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
Just re-read your post, I don't think I gave a very good answer last time.

Three concerns:

Foremost is that I cannot kick this bike in cold weather with straight 50 or 60.

Second is the multi-viscosity oils just don't hold up. I don't know why, but it just turns thin in no time and the motor sounds terrible. You can feel the difference at over 80 degrees ambient.

The motor is old, everything that has not been rebuilt is worn out, to the point where I can't run hydraulic lifters anymore because they collapse at idle. Oil pump hasn't produced more than 12 psi hot in decades, probably about 3 psi at an idle.

Third is leakage, oddly enough the thicker oils leak worse when the motor is cold (more pressure I suppose), but once it is hot, the multi-vis oils come out faster.

So today I drained out the SAE60 that had about a thousand miles on it and looked awful and put in 2 qts 20w-50 and 2 qts SAE50. The motor sounds much better on this, we'll see what a little time and a few miles do.

As for effective viscosity at temperature, I know it's supposed to work that way, but over about 80 degrees ambient on any multi-vis oil the motor sounds like somebody threw the entire middle school marching band down the stairs. On straight 60 it sounds great. I have no idea why.

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#4586240 - 11/27/17 02:45 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: CCI]
Atesz792 Offline


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 291
Loc: European Union


Maybe one of these would help?
_________________________
2004 Suzuki GS500F
2006 Renault Mégane 1.5 dci

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#4586308 - 11/27/17 06:56 AM Re: 20w-50 and straight 50 [Re: Atesz792]
CCI Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 132
Loc: New Mexico USA
WOW! That's amazing.

If I can find it in the USA, I'm trying it. Looks perfect.

Thank you.

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