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Take a poorly paid promotion? #4576662
11/17/17 02:09 AM
11/17/17 02:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
Chicago
bowlofturtle Offline OP
bowlofturtle  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
Chicago
I'm in the middle management, obviously the next step up is upper management. I've caught wind from some uppers managers on what to expect in terms of salary increase when making the move. Its very similar to the move from worker to middle. I feel the increase in responsibility/headache does not match the increase in $$.

We had a wave of promotions and i didn't go for it, they promoted some super under-qualified people and hired from outside for upper management. A lot of friends in upper management mentioned they rather have me over them and i should have applied. Honestly the only reason why i didn't want to was because the lack of pay and i was happy in my role at the moment.

Rumor has it another wave is going to happen and i'm a little torn on what to do. My direct manager is switching departments. So if i dont go for the promotion, i fear they might put another under-qualified manager above me. But if I apply and get the offer but the $$ is too low for me, then what do i do.
I have a bottom line of what I'll do the job for, honestly i feel its very norm according to google and its in the very upper range of what i've been told.

A big reason why i'm happy is because of my manager, we cover each other and work well. If they leave i might stuck with a dummy.I dont mind doing it all by myself but the $$ have to worth it to me.


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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576665
11/17/17 02:19 AM
11/17/17 02:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,849
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,849
'Stralia
When I was in turbines, I went from the "senior" turbine engineer to the "turbine asset manager".

The "step" in responsibility to leadership was huge, the promotion was $3k per annum but the take home dropped about $10k as a result of no overtime.

Was worth it, as my influence in the business improved markedly, and in being able to MANAGE the team rather than be lead helped us achieve great things.

Doing the pays towards the end of the year and seeing them outgross me was just something you have to get over.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576666
11/17/17 02:24 AM
11/17/17 02:24 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 764
USA
97prizm Offline
97prizm  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 764
USA
It doesn't have to be low pay, unless there is no negotiation on pay. Ive in the past I have been able to show comparible jobs and pay. If you show why you are worth what you're asking they may go for it. I got a sales job at a Lexus dealership with very little sales experience as i was able to explain why i should get hired.


If at first you don't succeed fail fail again. (Waldorf and Statler.)
1997 Geo Prizm
1984 Mazda RX-7 Spec 7
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576679
11/17/17 03:41 AM
11/17/17 03:41 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,276
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,276
ROCHESTER, NY
Best of luck to you

~7 years prior to my retirement, I took a poorly paid promotion. The annual pay increases were better over those years than what I had been receiving in the past however, they money, responsibility & stress ratio was never worth the difference.

Many of my co-workers wanted me to take this promotion for similar reasons that you want to take the promotion...so that someone less qualified didn't get the job.

The stress increase put my health at risk and those same co-workers turned against me, originally thinking that, "he's(me) one of us in this position"! But, instead over that period of time, I became one of them(upper mgt) and I had to perform the job in the name of the company & my superiors, and not the employees.

Although by the time I had retired, I was making more money than I had ever made, once it was over, I feel that it was never worth it. I would rather have stayed where I was and not taken the promotion. The extra money and short period of time that I was in this position didn't help much(too small to calculate) in my retirement anyway unless I could have had this position for 30 years.

Maybe I wasn't cut out for the position as it does take a special person that can handle criticism and stress when performing a job in the name of the company and not your friends.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: Char Baby] #4576698
11/17/17 06:36 AM
11/17/17 06:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,155
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
JC1 Offline
JC1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,155
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Best of luck to you

~7 years prior to my retirement, I took a poorly paid promotion. The annual pay increases were better over those years than what I had been receiving in the past however, they money, responsibility & stress ratio was never worth the difference.

Many of my co-workers wanted me to take this promotion for similar reasons that you want to take the promotion...so that someone less qualified didn't get the job.

The stress increase put my health at risk and those same co-workers turned against me, originally thinking that, "he's(me) one of us in this position"! But, instead over that period of time, I became one of them(upper mgt) and I had to perform the job in the name of the company & my superiors, and not the employees.

Although by the time I had retired, I was making more money than I had ever made, once it was over, I feel that it was never worth it. I would rather have stayed where I was and not taken the promotion. The extra money and short period of time that I was in this position didn't help much(too small to calculate) in my retirement anyway unless I could have had this position for 30 years.

Maybe I wasn't cut out for the position as it does take a special person that can handle criticism and stress when performing a job in the name of the company and not your friends.


Well put. In all the years of working I cannot fill up one hand with the number of great or good managers I have worked for.

If you want to become great and reduce your stress taking this promotion, you need to work on your leadership skills big time. I suggest you get some books by John Maxwell.

Best of luck.


2015 Grand Caravan SXT Plus 5w-20 PPPP/Fram Ultra Filter
1997 Honda Civic CX 5w-30 Shell Conventional/Fram Ultra Filter
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576703
11/17/17 06:38 AM
11/17/17 06:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 94
Pennsylvania
bugeye Offline
bugeye  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 94
Pennsylvania
Listen to Char Baby. I've been there. You get squeezed from above and below. It's called responsibility without authority. Those above you make decisions which you may not agree, but you are held accountable. No thanks. The effect on my health and family life was never worth the aggravation. I welcomed the "down sizing" of my management position and moved into early retirement.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576718
11/17/17 07:31 AM
11/17/17 07:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,629
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,629
Orlando, FL
What does "poorly paid" mean ?
$5K raise, $10K raise, ....???

Sometimes the added stress and aggravation is not worth the small salary increase.


Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576719
11/17/17 07:36 AM
11/17/17 07:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,559
SE Texas
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,559
SE Texas
15 years ago I moved into middle management from a lead position with zero increase in pay. The guise was that I had to "prove myself". I obtained salary information and argued the point that had they hired an external person (who may not have the in-depth insight into the operation that I did) would be paid a much higher salary. Over the course of 3 years, I managed to have my salary upped to a point where it was acceptable.

However, the old adage, if you want a great salary increase, then quit and come back applies to many organizations. In addition, many who are promoted from within never start at the salary level an external person would because the internal person is fighting against the system. First of all, they are already employed and "on the hook" so there is little incentive for the company to do the right thing (they are hiring anyway, so if the internal person does not apply or quits, it is not the end of the world). Another point is the "prove you can do the job" syndrome. An external person does not have to prove they can do the job, they are interviewed, assessed, and hired with (typically) the proper salary. If later, they cannot perform the job, they are released, but they normally do not start at a lower salary to prove themselves, else they likely would not have accepted the position.

OP, only you can decide what you can live with, but if history proves out, you will be handed more responsibility with less salary than an external person would likely achieve. I recommend that you try to find some salary information from Mercer, map it (honestly) to your job description and responsibilities, and sector of the country. Find the median salary number and be willing to take 10% less (to prove yourself) with the agreement that once proved you receive the other 10%. You can almost bet an external person would start at the median or higher (depending on their experience, education, etc.).

Good luck!


2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - Castrol 0W-40/Purflux
2018 MB C300 2.0L - M1 0W-40/OEM
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 15W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4576732
11/17/17 07:46 AM
11/17/17 07:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 370
Alabama, USA
bcossa2001 Offline
bcossa2001  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 370
Alabama, USA
What an outstanding thread. Real life advice from experienced people.


"Facts are pesky things"

2003 Town & Country--143 k
2016 Fusion 8 k
2016 Fusion 34 k
2017 Santa Fe 8k
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576741
11/17/17 08:06 AM
11/17/17 08:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,212
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,212
Wet side WA
The big question is this a dead end job or will it open other opportunities for you? Oh and I'm not just saying in the company you are currently with. You take care of people that take care of you and if they don't you take care of yourself!


2004 Corolla 124705
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bcossa2001] #4576805
11/17/17 09:09 AM
11/17/17 09:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,345
Chicago,IL,USA
Originally Posted By: bcossa2001
What an outstanding thread. Real life advice from experienced people.

re: 2015_PSD

^^^

+1,000


16 Golf SportWagen
13 Mazda5
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97 concorde
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576832
11/17/17 09:33 AM
11/17/17 09:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,850
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,850
MTL, CANADA
Not completely different from my situation. What is your plan for after if you do get the promotion? Do you have a goal to do something else afterwards? Will the new role open up doors to other roles you might find more suitable? Look at it as a spring board..if it can open new doors after about a year of doing your new role than maybe its worth it. My logic is keep moving ahead despite fact pay is not much better. You will gain experience in a new area, opening new doors and worst case, making your resume reflect experience in more areas. You may be able to jump to a role in another organization that pays well that needs the experience you have. It also creates new challenges for you. Apply and see what they offer, go in with a reasonable offer if they lowball you and take it from there.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576844
11/17/17 09:40 AM
11/17/17 09:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,077
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,077
Midwest, Illinois
IMO, management is a revolving door.
I've had the same job for about 37 years.
14 managers in that time. But, I admit that the Peter Principle is especially alive and well where I work.
My current manager, 10 years with the company, 10 months as manager. Head only moves in a vertical plane. He'll move on soon.

Last edited by beanoil; 11/17/17 09:42 AM.

beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576867
11/17/17 09:56 AM
11/17/17 09:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,191
New York City
SeaJay Offline
SeaJay  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,191
New York City
I made my peace many years ago by deciding to stay at a level with less responsibility with pay levels acceptable for that work. Couldn't be happier.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576880
11/17/17 10:14 AM
11/17/17 10:14 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,992
America
Alfred_B Offline
Alfred_B  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,992
America
You can go into upper management and if it doesn't work, can always change the employer now with a better looking resume.

If the pay raise is the issue, remember that when promoted from within, the salary is not as high as when someone is brought from the outside. The reason for that is that they weren't able to find someone from the inside so they are upping the offer to attract someone from the outside. Plus, the outsiders start with a clean slate and are able to negotiate better.

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