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Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic #4576206
11/16/17 03:19 PM
11/16/17 03:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
Michigan
phogstenjr Offline OP
phogstenjr  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
Michigan
The abiotic theory of the origin of oil
that oil and natural gas are abiotic products (generated from inorganic matter within the earth's mantle), not 'fossil fuels' that are biologically created by the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests!

What do you believe?

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576214
11/16/17 03:27 PM
11/16/17 03:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,304
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,304
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Could it possibly be BOTH?


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576219
11/16/17 03:32 PM
11/16/17 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
What the [censored] is crued oil?


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576223
11/16/17 03:38 PM
11/16/17 03:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,641
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,641
The Motor City
I don't think it's a belief issue so much as a science issue. Wasn't it proven that at least some of the oil is abiotic? I believe someone drilled down into a layer of earth that predates our biology and found oil.

The way I look at it, other planets have significant amounts of methane (and no dinosaurs!), so it stands to reason that our planet has a more condensed form of organic matter tucked in the strata.

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576225
11/16/17 03:39 PM
11/16/17 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
How is carbon (organic) generated from inorganic matter without transmutation at the atomic scale either through some decay process, like many radioactive elements are known to have, or nuclear fusion from lighter elements being combined, resulting in some miniature sun below the earth's surface? Our sun puts out plenty of energy just converting hydrogen to helium.


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576227
11/16/17 03:40 PM
11/16/17 03:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,627
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,627
Western S.C.
Is coal abiotic now too?


2011 Toyota Prius now at 94K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Nyogtha] #4576236
11/16/17 03:50 PM
11/16/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
Michigan
phogstenjr Offline OP
phogstenjr  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
Michigan
From a article in Forbs titled "The Center Of The Earth May Be Hotter Than The Sun's Surface" (Apr 28, 2013):

"The surface of the Sun is hot - over 5500 degrees Celsius (which is nearly 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit . But if new findings are correct, then the center of our own planet may actually be hotter - over 1,000 degrees hotter than previously thought".

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: CR94] #4576250
11/16/17 04:02 PM
11/16/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,117
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?


It is *VERY* close to the surface......

unlike some crude oil that is 5,000+ down - how do you explain that?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576265
11/16/17 04:22 PM
11/16/17 04:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Some crude oil fields are (were) very close to the surface too, but most of the easy to get to, easy to refine crude oil has long since been gotten to & refined. It all depends on the localized warps & folds in the earth's crust over time.

Natural seeps go way back in recorded history, valuable naturally occuring pitch for things like arks and baskets containing floating babies found in the bulrushes.

It's all still well above the mantle and mohorovicic discontinuity.

Last edited by Nyogtha; 11/16/17 04:23 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576283
11/16/17 04:32 PM
11/16/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,520
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,520
'Stralia
Chemical equilibrium at temperatures and pressures in the presence of metallic oxides (catalysts) means that of course SOME hydrocarbons can be produced abiotically.

THe fact that some CAN does not mean that all ARE, which is the leap of faith that certain groups like to propose to take the responsibility element out of the equation.

If the atmosphere was once predominantly methane and CO2, there's probably enough carbon around to get it back there.

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576288
11/16/17 04:35 PM
11/16/17 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
But those routes still require carbon or carbon containing substances - hence organic.

OP posits generation from inorganic substances.

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Linctex] #4576291
11/16/17 04:39 PM
11/16/17 04:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,589
USA
mk378 Offline
mk378  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,589
USA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?


It is *VERY* close to the surface......

unlike some crude oil that is 5,000+ down - how do you explain that?


No one has bothered to look for coal at great depths because it would be impractical to mine it, and there is plenty near the surface. On the other hand, the easy oil has been tapped out but it is possible to drill very deep.

Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Linctex] #4576301
11/16/17 04:46 PM
11/16/17 04:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,627
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,627
Western S.C.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?

It is *VERY* close to the surface......
But, for some people, physical evidence is of little significance if it conflicts with one's political or religious agenda.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 94K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Shannow] #4576347
11/16/17 05:26 PM
11/16/17 05:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,075
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,075
Kalifornia Kollective
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Chemical equilibrium at temperatures and pressures in the presence of metallic oxides (catalysts) means that of course SOME hydrocarbons can be produced abiotically.

THe fact that some CAN does not mean that all ARE, which is the leap of faith that certain groups like to propose to take the responsibility element out of the equation.

If the atmosphere was once predominantly methane and CO2, there's probably enough carbon around to get it back there.


That's the real issue. The earth has been hotter in the past, and has a vastly different atmosphere. The earth "as a planet" will survive. Will we ...

Most of the carbon in the vast oil, gas and coal reserves underground was once free in the atmosphere. It could be again, but that might not be the best idea ...

Last edited by BrocLuno; 11/16/17 05:27 PM.

Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr] #4576354
11/16/17 05:30 PM
11/16/17 05:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,537
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: phogstenjr
From a article in Forbs titled "The Center Of The Earth May Be Hotter Than The Sun's Surface" (Apr 28, 2013):

"The surface of the Sun is hot - over 5500 degrees Celsius (which is nearly 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit . But if new findings are correct, then the center of our own planet may actually be hotter - over 1,000 degrees hotter than previously thought".


Well, we know the nuclear reactions at our sun don't happen on its surface, so comparing its surface temperature to our planet's core temperature to support elemental formation of carbon via nuclear fusion of substances with lower atomic nubers than carbon is non sequitir.

Now compare our sun's core temperature to that of our planet, fusing hydrogen, the lightest element with atomic number 1, to helium, the second lightest element with atomic number 2, then extrapolate that to fusing even heavier substances to carbon, atomic number 12. How much lower is our planet's core temperature and energy release to space?

Here's a star made of carbon via nuclear fusion whose nuclear furnaces are stopped - check out the temperature

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/26335-coldest-white-dwarf-star-diamond.html

Last edited by Nyogtha; 11/16/17 05:35 PM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
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