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#4576206 - 11/16/17 03:19 PM Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic
phogstenjr Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Michigan
The abiotic theory of the origin of oil
that oil and natural gas are abiotic products (generated from inorganic matter within the earth's mantle), not 'fossil fuels' that are biologically created by the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests!

What do you believe?

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#4576214 - 11/16/17 03:27 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7671
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Could it possibly be BOTH?
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#4576219 - 11/16/17 03:32 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
What the [censored] is crued oil?
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#4576223 - 11/16/17 03:38 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 12341
Loc: The Motor City
I don't think it's a belief issue so much as a science issue. Wasn't it proven that at least some of the oil is abiotic? I believe someone drilled down into a layer of earth that predates our biology and found oil.

The way I look at it, other planets have significant amounts of methane (and no dinosaurs!), so it stands to reason that our planet has a more condensed form of organic matter tucked in the strata.

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#4576225 - 11/16/17 03:39 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2327
Loc: San Antonio, TX
How is carbon (organic) generated from inorganic matter without transmutation at the atomic scale either through some decay process, like many radioactive elements are known to have, or nuclear fusion from lighter elements being combined, resulting in some miniature sun below the earth's surface? Our sun puts out plenty of energy just converting hydrogen to helium.
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#4576227 - 11/16/17 03:40 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Is coal abiotic now too?
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#4576236 - 11/16/17 03:50 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Nyogtha]
phogstenjr Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Michigan
From a article in Forbs titled "The Center Of The Earth May Be Hotter Than The Sun's Surface" (Apr 28, 2013):

"The surface of the Sun is hot - over 5500 degrees Celsius (which is nearly 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit . But if new findings are correct, then the center of our own planet may actually be hotter - over 1,000 degrees hotter than previously thought".

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#4576250 - 11/16/17 04:02 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: CR94]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6160
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?


It is *VERY* close to the surface......

unlike some crude oil that is 5,000+ down - how do you explain that?
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#4576265 - 11/16/17 04:22 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2327
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Some crude oil fields are (were) very close to the surface too, but most of the easy to get to, easy to refine crude oil has long since been gotten to & refined. It all depends on the localized warps & folds in the earth's crust over time.

Natural seeps go way back in recorded history, valuable naturally occuring pitch for things like arks and baskets containing floating babies found in the bulrushes.

It's all still well above the mantle and mohorovicic discontinuity.


Edited by Nyogtha (11/16/17 04:23 PM)
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#4576283 - 11/16/17 04:32 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39914
Loc: 'Stralia
Chemical equilibrium at temperatures and pressures in the presence of metallic oxides (catalysts) means that of course SOME hydrocarbons can be produced abiotically.

THe fact that some CAN does not mean that all ARE, which is the leap of faith that certain groups like to propose to take the responsibility element out of the equation.

If the atmosphere was once predominantly methane and CO2, there's probably enough carbon around to get it back there.

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#4576288 - 11/16/17 04:35 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2327
Loc: San Antonio, TX
But those routes still require carbon or carbon containing substances - hence organic.

OP posits generation from inorganic substances.

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#4576291 - 11/16/17 04:39 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Linctex]
mk378 Offline


Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 1421
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?


It is *VERY* close to the surface......

unlike some crude oil that is 5,000+ down - how do you explain that?


No one has bothered to look for coal at great depths because it would be impractical to mine it, and there is plenty near the surface. On the other hand, the easy oil has been tapped out but it is possible to drill very deep.

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#4576301 - 11/16/17 04:46 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Linctex]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: CR94
Is coal abiotic now too?

It is *VERY* close to the surface......
But, for some people, physical evidence is of little significance if it conflicts with one's political or religious agenda.
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1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K

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#4576347 - 11/16/17 05:26 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: Shannow]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5526
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Chemical equilibrium at temperatures and pressures in the presence of metallic oxides (catalysts) means that of course SOME hydrocarbons can be produced abiotically.

THe fact that some CAN does not mean that all ARE, which is the leap of faith that certain groups like to propose to take the responsibility element out of the equation.

If the atmosphere was once predominantly methane and CO2, there's probably enough carbon around to get it back there.


That's the real issue. The earth has been hotter in the past, and has a vastly different atmosphere. The earth "as a planet" will survive. Will we ...

Most of the carbon in the vast oil, gas and coal reserves underground was once free in the atmosphere. It could be again, but that might not be the best idea ...


Edited by BrocLuno (11/16/17 05:27 PM)
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#4576354 - 11/16/17 05:30 PM Re: Is Crued Oil a Fosil Fuel or is it abiotic [Re: phogstenjr]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2327
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: phogstenjr
From a article in Forbs titled "The Center Of The Earth May Be Hotter Than The Sun's Surface" (Apr 28, 2013):

"The surface of the Sun is hot - over 5500 degrees Celsius (which is nearly 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit . But if new findings are correct, then the center of our own planet may actually be hotter - over 1,000 degrees hotter than previously thought".


Well, we know the nuclear reactions at our sun don't happen on its surface, so comparing its surface temperature to our planet's core temperature to support elemental formation of carbon via nuclear fusion of substances with lower atomic nubers than carbon is non sequitir.

Now compare our sun's core temperature to that of our planet, fusing hydrogen, the lightest element with atomic number 1, to helium, the second lightest element with atomic number 2, then extrapolate that to fusing even heavier substances to carbon, atomic number 12. How much lower is our planet's core temperature and energy release to space?

Here's a star made of carbon via nuclear fusion whose nuclear furnaces are stopped - check out the temperature

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/26335-coldest-white-dwarf-star-diamond.html


Edited by Nyogtha (11/16/17 05:35 PM)
_________________________
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