Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars?

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I need some help. I was told not to use "European" oils in my "Japanese" cars as they would not be good for them. I have SJ and SL cars. This conversation was in a forum and I am awaiting a response to my question of "Why not?"

It appears to me that the "European" oils have more good stuff in them and could protect my engines better than a "NonEuropean" oil.

What am I missing? What ammo can you give me in this discussion?

What is the reason I should not use European oils in my cars? Are there some?
 
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I need some help. I was told not to use "European" oils in my "Japanese" cars as they would not be good for them. I have SJ and SL cars. This conversation was in a forum and I am awaiting a response to my question of "Why not?"

It appears to me that the "European" oils have more good stuff in them and could protect my engines better than a "NonEuropean" oil.

What am I missing? What ammo can you give me in this discussion?

What is the reason I should not use European oils in my cars? Are there some?

Categorically? No reasons at all.

There might be a spec mismatch, depending on the oil and the application. E.g., if you had an engine that calls for an ILSAC GF-5 5w-30, an ACEA A3 5w-30 might have too high an HTHS and an unnecessarily heavy additive package. But cases like that aren't really about "European" vs. "Japanese"; they're simply a matter of the specs involved.

If there's a grain of truth in what those folks are saying, it's that there aren't a lot of oils that meet ILSAC GF-4/GF-5 and ACEA specs at the same time. There also aren't a lot of xW-20 and xW-30 oils that carry API SM/SN and ACEA specs.

But even that doesn't mean much for you if your cars all call for SJ and SL. There are plenty of "Euro" oils that carry those specs as well. They may or may not be "better" than any other SJ/SL/SM/SN oils, but there's no reason you couldn't use them.
 
European oils tend to be on the heavy side because the engines are built for them. If you had newer japanese cars that spec 0w20, I wouldn't suggest euro oils. Since your vehicles are older, I would recommend something like M1 0w40 since it is on the border of being a 30wt anyway, just with a ton of additives being a full SAPS oil. No reason not to use full SAPS euro oils, not the low SAPS diesel oils though, not much in those oils at all, they would have to be changed often.
 
Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
European oils tend to be on the heavy side because the engines are built for them.

Only true for the xW-30 oils based on ACEA A3 or C3. The ones based on ACEA A1 or A5 aren't much different from API/ILSAC oils in terms of viscosity.


Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
Since your vehicles are older, I would recommend something like M1 0w40 since it is on the border of being a 30wt anyway, just with a ton of additives being a full SAPS oil.

It's not THAT heavily additized. But I agree that it's worth looking at.


Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
No reason not to use full SAPS euro oils, not the low SAPS diesel oils though, not much in those oils at all, they would have to be changed often.

Their TBNs tend to be low, but there's plenty of other stuff in them. It just doesn't show up on a VOA.
 
I dont think there are many reasons to agree or disagree with you on this. What is the intended benwfit you seek? Im not sure a Euro spec oil will improve anything at all. More additives? Will your car benefit from more? Same with TBN, lower starting TBN doesnt necessarily mean it wont outlast a product that had a higher TBN to start with.
 
Yeah, and don't ever eat Chinese food, or Mexican food unless you are one ... Huh. Use whatever oil you want
smile.gif


Rule number one - some oil is better than no oil. Brand and source fall so far below this, they are not even visible.
 
You know those exact Japanese cars are spec’d for “euro” oils.....in Europe, where they are also sold.
 
Just about every oil sold in Australia has both American API specs and European ACEA specs. It makes for a good oil, and I tend to prefer oil that has both specs.

Rest assured that most Japanese cars in Australia will be running on Euro grade oils, no problem.

BTW in the North American market that is dominated by ILSAC style oils, PP 5W30 is API SN and ILSAC GF-5 and ACEA A5/B5, that's good stuff.

The M1 5W30 I am using right now is A1/B1, but this grade will finish soon under the new ACEA sequences, and the higher A5/B5 will only be allowed.

If you want the heavier stuff, Euro A3/B4 then M1 0W40 and Edge 0W40 fit that requirement nicely. You can't get an oil that is both GF-5 and A3/B4, as the requirements conflict.
 
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Arguing about oil on car boards really gets you nowhere. If you were to ask them why, I don't think they could give you an answer. (Why is kale better than spinach? Why should I eat a baked sweet potato over baked squash. There isn't a good answer because one simply does not exist.) I don't think they know the difference between high and low SAPS oils so you're probably good there too.

You found the answer out for yourself so you're good to go. A3/B4 0w40 it is and sleep well at night.

And yes, those cars in Europe and certainly Australia are running A3/B4 (Euro) oils issue free. Their manuals most likely call for it.
 
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I observed that an A3B4 SL shows better blotter 'performance' than an API SN without ACEA in similar Mitsubishi 4G15 engines by 2 different owners .......
Hence using European ACEA oil in Asian engines calling for API Sx as a non-issue, if not better, IMHO.
 
I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind the comment. When I look at European oils in general, they tend to have higher HTHS values, more Zinc and Phosphorus and higher Sulfated Ash (I don't have a clue if that is good or bad) and tend to be a little thicker at any particular weight. Then I see how they meet all these rigid requirements of MB and Porsche and BMW and I start thinking that they must be better oils.

And I'm just talking about my old cars, SJ and SL. When someone in the engine oil business says I would be better off leaving the European oils and sticking with the SN, I want to know why. Please understand as I don't want to offend anyone but I don't need any oil selection advice. I already have my brands. My guts tell me that European oils are better but I am wondering if there are additives, like the higher Sulfated Ash, that would be detrimental to my old cars. I'm assuming the higher Zinc and Phosphorous are better for them.

I realize some of you may be pulling your hair out thinking, "What is this guy's problem? Why is he splitting hairs over something that means virtually nothing in this life?"
A small percentage of you understand that I just want to know. That's all. You can't say there isn't a difference because I can read the spec sheets. You can say the difference doesn't matter. Then my followup question is, "Why is there a difference if the difference doesn't matter?" I hope you understand. I am in a good mood. I am smiling getting ready for my boiled eggs and home grown sausage.
 
My view is that the North American market runs ILSAC oils which are resource conserving (use a bit less fuel) by way of lower viscosity and lower HTHS. They are also mid-SAPS and restricted in max allowable Phos (and therefore ZDDP - zinc) to ensure a long life for the exhaust cats. The up shot of all this is an oil that is good for the environment, good enough for the car, and needs to be changed regularly.

The Euro oils, especially the high-SAPS and high-HTHS A3/B4 oils are for both petrol (gas) and light duty diesel, with extended drain intervals. Something like 20,000 miles and 2 years is the common OCI there. These long life oils have a large reserve of everything built in: Viscosity, HTHS, TBN, SAPS, ZDDP so they can go the distance. The high HTHS and ZDDP also make them suitable performance oils for cars like Porsche and their A40 spec.

Europe has very low sulphur fuel so the need for high-SAPS and high TBN has been reduced, so they often use a mid-SAPS C3 oil now days. But a full synthetic that is still suitable for long oil change intervals.

Another way of looking at it is that most of the North Ametican motoring public want cheap oil changes but are happy to do them regularly. The European market is all about the longest possible oil change interval, but when it's time to change the oil, they use a very expensive and high quality synthetic.
 
What kind of bad things will happen if you put Euro oil in? Will the oil somehow sense it's not in a Euro engine and immediately turn itself into sludge?
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
My view is that the North American market runs ILSAC oils which are resource conserving (use a bit less fuel) by way of lower viscosity and lower HTHS. They are also mid-SAPS and restricted in max allowable Phos (and therefore ZDDP - zinc) to ensure a long life for the exhaust cats. The up shot of all this is an oil that is good for the environment, good enough for the car, and needs to be changed regularly.

The Euro oils, especially the high-SAPS and high-HTHS A3/B4 oils are for both petrol (gas) and light duty diesel, with extended drain intervals. Something like 20,000 miles and 2 years is the common OCI there. These long life oils have a large reserve of everything built in: Viscosity, HTHS, TBN, SAPS, ZDDP so they can go the distance. The high HTHS

Europe has very low sulphur fuel so the need for high-SAPS and high TBN has been reduced, so they often use a mid-SAPS C3 oil now days. But a full synthetic that is still suitable for long oil change intervals.

Another way of looking at it is that most of the North Ametican motoring public want cheap oil changes but are happy to do them regularly. The European market is all about the longest possible oil change interval, but when it's time to change the oil, they use a very expensive and high quality synthetic.


Thanks! Great info for me. Helps me understand.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
What kind of bad things will happen if you put Euro oil in? Will the oil somehow sense it's not in a Euro engine and immediately turn itself into sludge?
crazy2.gif



Me thinks you got it reversed. It’s the “engine” that will recognize the “oil” and it will seize up.

C’ mon now.
smirk.gif
 
My F150 EB : about 70k miles out of 110k using Edge 0w40. Zero problems. Similar to a turbocharged BMW engine: small size, big HP and TRQ output. What’s good for a BMW is good for my Ford.
 
It's not about WHERE it's made, it's about specs :
The reason "Euro" oils are something fancy in the US is because a lot of European synthetic oils are oriented towards high performance engines and not fuel efficiency, this is mostly due to the fact that in Europe we don't have Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards ( CAFE ), in Europe the regulations are not as stringent on fuel economy, but are more stringent on vehicle emissions.

ACEA specs are the most important you should look at.
For example : ACEA A3/B4, it's a spec that is designed towards high heat resistance and use in performance cars, on the other hand ACEA A5/B5 would be similar to American ILSAC GF-5 oils, they are designed towards maximising fuel efficiency and are not designed to be used in high performance engines.
 
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