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sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 #4573651
11/14/17 11:08 AM
11/14/17 11:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 198
CA
2008wrx Offline OP
2008wrx  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 198
CA
Do all these new little AWD vehicles have tight tires (tolerance)? Like, we replace tires, it must be all 4 at the same time?

Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573666
11/14/17 11:26 AM
11/14/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,419
OBX & Central FL
NormanBuntz Offline
NormanBuntz  Offline

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,419
OBX & Central FL
Unless you blow one, you shouldn't have to worry about it if you keep them rotated. No way a CX-3 or HR-V should be hard on tires.


2017 Honda Odyssey SE, 18K
2013 Honda Accord LX, 59K
2007 Honda Ridgeline RTS, 89K
2007 Infiniti M35, 107K
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573747
11/14/17 01:07 PM
11/14/17 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
gathermewool Online content
gathermewool  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
I don't know the exact setup of these two mico-CUVs, but here's how most great AWD systems tend to work, with my logic for saying that even tire wear all around would be important.

Front and rear are open differentials; however, stability and dynamic control (TCS and VDC, as an example) will not only cut power when wheel slip is detected, but selectively brake individual wheels that are sensed to be slipping. So, a minor difference in tire diameters likely won't have any affect, but mixing worn tires with new, left-to-right, might lower the marginbto when brakes are applied, potentially increasing wear. You'd have to research how their traction control scheme is setup.

The bigger concern, and likely more prevalent condition, is uneven wear, front-to-rear. In this case, and in very simple terms, when the center "differential" clutch engages to connect the front to rear, it will slip and increase wear if the front tires are spinning at a different rate than the rear tires. Luckily, the clutch likely doesn't engage unless front-to-rear slip is detected, at which point the clutch would be cycling to transfer power anyway.

So, differential tire wear would lower the margin to engagement of traction control, but how much wear would be induced at how much differential wear is hard to guess. The overall effect will likely be less than for a vehicle that had a true center differential or limited slip differential(s), but I wouldn't risk it; I'd ensure even tire wear and replace all tires if on or more needs to be replaced and the rest are worn significantly more.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573760
11/14/17 01:24 PM
11/14/17 01:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 850
pennsylvania, usa
dlayman Offline
dlayman  Offline

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 850
pennsylvania, usa
I know for sure that the CX3 has the tire equipment the OP is asking about, don't know on the Honda.

Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573781
11/14/17 01:52 PM
11/14/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 821
Virginia
glock19 Offline
glock19  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 821
Virginia
Not sure about the specific models, but I believe AWD systems generally require the tires be within 2/32-4/32"


2017 GMC Sierra SLT Z71 Crew Cab - His
2016 Toyota Highlander Limited - Hers
2002 Honda Odyssey EX - Beater
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573825
11/14/17 02:52 PM
11/14/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,026
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Online content
JohnnyJohnson  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,026
Wet side WA
Another better idea to make you spend more money on your car.


2004 Corolla 130005
Out: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 7156 Miles
In: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 3-14-19 129693
2006 Duramax 74725
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: gathermewool] #4573875
11/14/17 03:58 PM
11/14/17 03:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
gathermewool Online content
gathermewool  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I don't know the exact setup of these two mico-CUVs, but here's how most **GENERIC** AWD systems tend to work, with my logic for saying that even tire wear all around would be important.

Front and rear are open differentials; however, stability and dynamic control (TCS and VDC, as an example) will not only cut power when wheel slip is detected, but selectively brake individual wheels that are sensed to be slipping. So, a minor difference in tire diameters likely won't have any affect, but mixing worn tires with new, left-to-right, might lower the marginbto when brakes are applied, potentially increasing wear. You'd have to research how their traction control scheme is setup.

The bigger concern, and likely more prevalent condition, is uneven wear, front-to-rear. In this case, and in very simple terms, when the center "differential" clutch engages to connect the front to rear, it will slip and increase wear if the front tires are spinning at a different rate than the rear tires. Luckily, the clutch likely doesn't engage unless front-to-rear slip is detected, at which point the clutch would be cycling to transfer power anyway.

So, differential tire wear would lower the margin to engagement of traction control, but how much wear would be induced at how much differential wear is hard to guess. The overall effect will likely be less than for a vehicle that had a true center differential or limited slip differential(s), but I wouldn't risk it; I'd ensure even tire wear and replace all tires if on or more needs to be replaced and the rest are worn significantly more.


Auto-correct. Meant *generic* above


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573889
11/14/17 04:13 PM
11/14/17 04:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 198
CA
2008wrx Offline OP
2008wrx  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 198
CA
thanks for all the inputs... i can understand "got to pay to play" that's why our family is hesitated on these 3 models. we are kind of lazy; we have 2wd vehicles and we never rotate tire and we only buy 2 tires at a time LOL...

Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4573959
11/14/17 05:19 PM
11/14/17 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
gathermewool Online content
gathermewool  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4574656
11/15/17 09:24 AM
11/15/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,195
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,195
Central NY
2WD with snow tires has never let me down in the snow!

In fact, I would have been perfectly happy if I could have got my Forester in either FWD or RWD.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: gathermewool] #4575108
11/15/17 04:10 PM
11/15/17 04:10 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,254
Parts Unknown
UG_Passat Offline
UG_Passat  Offline

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,254
Parts Unknown
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: UG_Passat] #4575139
11/15/17 04:29 PM
11/15/17 04:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,195
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,195
Central NY
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?


Probably the same boat I was in. I didn't want AWD and I tried to avoid it. But the Forester was the only vehicle on the market that met all of my criteria. So that's what I got even though it was AWD.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4575157
11/15/17 04:42 PM
11/15/17 04:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,006
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,006
California
The HR-V should use Honda's Real-Time 4WD, which uses a simple PTO at the transaxle and a diff equipped with a dual oil pump mechanism along with a clutch in the back. Any differences between front and rear wheel speed will create a difference of oil flow between the 2 pumps which will engage the clutch to drive the rear wheels.

I'm not sure what Mazda uses, but seeing their past Ford/Volvo connection I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Haldex-based system.

I would try to keep the tires within 1/32-2/32" of each other and rotate religiously. I'm not sure if Honda or Mazda's system is as sensitive as Subaru or Audi, there have been reports of Toyota RAV4s with AWD trashing their PTOs due to sudden AWD engagement or tire size mismatch. It has happened on many Subarus with mismatched tires.

Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: UG_Passat] #4575266
11/15/17 06:23 PM
11/15/17 06:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
gathermewool Online content
gathermewool  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,800
New England
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?


I never liked the Civic - I'm 6' tall, 200# and the coupe was very uncomfortable to get in and out of. I did not intend to replace it so soon, but the '15 Legacy was being sold with just the right features and for a very good price. The owner was from North Carolina until this year, and had zero rust or corrosion anywhere.

AWD isn't necessary, but I like Subarus and their safety rating is top notch. It also came with the Eyesight package.

Finally, the Civic was great in snow for the vast majority of snow days, just as a midsize FWD sedan would be with snow tires. The stopping power was great. With that said, the tires still spun and traction was questionable at times when I was snowed in or while driving in deep, slushy stuff, where the AWD maintains a truer track. When it's really bad, like it was during last winter's one white-out-bad snow storm, I opted to take the Forester (also with Blizzaks) and was able to fully stop and then get going, whereas many people stopped and were then stuck. Not only was I able to get going in that nasty stuff, but I was able to do so safely - no perceptible wheel spin and no fish-tailing at all. It was actually pretty amazing.

//

Anyway, my question wasn't to convince the OP he didn't need AWD - it was to simply ask IF he needed it ever or just liked the idea of it. He's from CA, so unless he's doing some light off-roading, beach driving or taking weekend trips to the mountains, the need for AWD is all but nonexistent. I wouldn't purchase AWD just to get better going power in wet weather, personally.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter (64,774 miles)
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter (40,803 miles)
Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx] #4575316
11/15/17 07:03 PM
11/15/17 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,006
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,006
California
I'd get AWD to pass through chain control, but AWD is nothing without the right tires. A Subaru on winter tires is nearly invincible. However FWD does fine in the snow with winter tires but you'll still need chains if local rules require it.

Just don't be that guy thinking a BMW X5M can make it up Highway 50 towards Tahoe on Bridgestone Dueler Sport run-flats but had to pull over since they were losing traction fast. This was also during a winter storm alert, we happened to be the unlucky ones in a Forester with OEM Yokohamas behind it.

Top Gear thinks BMW's xDrive is worthless.

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