Changing ATF in Toyota with No Dipstick ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
6,056
Location
VA
Im getting ready to change the ATF in my 05 LS430 and my son's 09 IS350. Neither one has dipstick. I'm read a little and it seems very important to check the ATF at a certain temp. I have a infrared thermometer whereby I could get some decent temps all over the pan and sort of take an average. OR, i can just drain out what I can while it is cold and simply add that much back.

Is there some device I can purchase that will take the ATF temp? Or should I just assume it was properly filled from the factory?
 
When I owned my 2012 4Runner, I recall there was a procedure that included jumping terminals on the obdii port that would cause the trans temp light to flash at the correct temp.. I’m not sure if that applies to your Lexus’
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Im getting ready to change the ATF in my 05 LS430 and my son's 09 IS350. Neither one has dipstick. I'm read a little and it seems very important to check the ATF at a certain temp. I have a infrared thermometer whereby I could get some decent temps all over the pan and sort of take an average. OR, i can just drain out what I can while it is cold and simply add that much back.

Is there some device I can purchase that will take the ATF temp? Or should I just assume it was properly filled from the factory?


The proper procedure would require a Lift, a vacuum pump, another pump for the fluid, a vacuum regulator and a special tool made by Toyota if the tranny fluid is above the recommended temp. All this will take approx 1.5 to 2 hrs. NOBODY does it this way as too costly and time consuming. Go to Weber University on U Tube to see it. This is why Toyota/Lexus have a machine that does all this via the cooling lines of the transmission, about 30-45 min time wise. It's precise and IMO well worth the cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Pelican
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Im getting ready to change the ATF in my 05 LS430 and my son's 09 IS350. Neither one has dipstick. I'm read a little and it seems very important to check the ATF at a certain temp. I have a infrared thermometer whereby I could get some decent temps all over the pan and sort of take an average. OR, i can just drain out what I can while it is cold and simply add that much back.

Is there some device I can purchase that will take the ATF temp? Or should I just assume it was properly filled from the factory?


The proper procedure would require a Lift, a vacuum pump, another pump for the fluid, a vacuum regulator and a special tool made by Toyota if the tranny fluid is above the recommended temp. All this will take approx 1.5 to 2 hrs. NOBODY does it this way as too costly and time consuming. Go to Weber University on U Tube to see it. This is why Toyota/Lexus have a machine that does all this via the cooling lines of the transmission, about 30-45 min time wise. It's precise and IMO well worth the cost.


Engineered to prevent DIY car maintenance.
 
The reason for the temperature stuff is because the fluid expands when it gets hot, and the fluid drained from a hot trans will take up more volume than ambient temp fluid from a bottle.

You can do it the simple way and let the car cool off outside and put your new jug of oil outside so the fluid in the trans and the new fluid will be the same temp. You then measure how much came out and put the same back in. Easy peasy.

My 03 jetta 1.8 5 spd auto has no dipstick, only a fill hole. I had to use this method to change the "lifetime" fluid at 200k km. I'm not sure how you would put the fluid back in on your car, but there has to be a fill hole or a sensor hole that can be used to fill.

The cooler line flush is the way to go, but just doing a D&F is better than nothing. My car can drain 3.5 out of 5 litres I think and the first change made a big diff in how it shifted, the old oil was black as coal.

Edit: Wow, I just watched that vid. That is intense! I would just pull the plug and straw, drain it and replace what was removed. I think the idea is that a shop will not be able to wait for the car to cool down, so they have to be able to replace hot fluid with ambient temp fluid. That is not necessary for a DIYer. I think a D&F is better than a cooler line flush in this instance as how could you check the fluid level with any sort of accuracy? On my car you have to put the trans through the gears to fill the galleries in the trans before using the stand pipe to check the level, and people on forums seems to have to add a little extra fluid even then.
 
Last edited:
When the "lifetime" ATF in my RAV4 got blacker'n Hades, I found a local Toyota specialty shop that had purchased the special extractor to deal with the stupid design of that tranny.
Still expensive, but way cheaper than the dealer and they seemed to know what they were doing and care about their customers.
 
On my Tacoma I use my ultragauge to check the fluid level at the proper temp. (97°-115°F) I jumped the two pins on the obd2 port (4,13)and started the temp check procedure and then plugged my UG back in the last time I did a pan drain and verified that the fluid was to be checked at 97-115, some people on the forums say that the range is 115-130, clearly it's not, at least not in my case.


 
Originally Posted By: BlakeB
On my Tacoma I use my ultragauge to check the fluid level at the proper temp. (97°-115°F) I jumped the two pins on the obd2 port (4,13)and started the temp check procedure and then plugged my UG back in the last time I did a pan drain and verified that the fluid was to be checked at 97-115, some people on the forums say that the range is 115-130, clearly it's not, at least not in my case.





Interesting find! I can't imagine there is a massive difference in fluid level if you check at 108*F vs at 125*F.

But one thing we can't confirm (I assume you maybe are a member over at TacomaWorld) is that the AT OIL TEMP light uses the same PIDs as the Ultragauge. On my Torque OBD app, I was able to get the Trans Pan and TC Outlet temps, but both were based on formulaic PIDs..
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: BlakeB
On my Tacoma I use my ultragauge to check the fluid level at the proper temp. (97°-115°F) I jumped the two pins on the obd2 port (4,13)and started the temp check procedure and then plugged my UG back in the last time I did a pan drain and verified that the fluid was to be checked at 97-115, some people on the forums say that the range is 115-130, clearly it's not, at least not in my case.





Interesting find! I can't imagine there is a massive difference in fluid level if you check at 108*F vs at 125*F.

But one thing we can't confirm (I assume you maybe are a member over at TacomaWorld) is that the AT OIL TEMP light uses the same PIDs as the Ultragauge. On my Torque OBD app, I was able to get the Trans Pan and TC Outlet temps, but both were based on formulaic PIDs..

No, but what I can confirm is when the temp check light comes on and goes off for my vehicle. Now I don't need to put it into temp check mode to check the fluid level. It would be interesting to install an OBD2 splitter and see what techstream showed vs the ultragauge. What I can tell you is this, after my truck sits all night, the coolant and atf temps will be exactly the same at startup. For example, when I went to work yesterday I got in my truck after it had been sitting outside for 10 to 12 hours, the coolant and atf at the pan and TC were all 41°F.

Somebody checked on a 4runner and the difference in fluid level between the cool side of the temp check range and the hot side was about 6oz. 18 degrees in the temp check range and 6oz of fluid difference = 1oz per 3 degrees of temperature change.

I am on TW, 07 sport 4x4.

I have a few posts in the last few pages of this thread.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/diy-full-flush-for-automatic-transmission.68462/page-41
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: leje0306
When I owned my 2012 4Runner, I recall there was a procedure that included jumping terminals on the obdii port that would cause the trans temp light to flash at the correct temp.. I’m not sure if that applies to your Lexus’


Same deal on my 2007 ES350. Jumping 2 pins in the port and a certain procedure of starting the car and moving the shifter. In mine not the trans temp light, but the transmission gear indicator display would flash.
It worked, but next time I’m letting the dealer handle it.

I don’t like the drain, measure and then fill with the same amount route because who knows if the right amount was in there before.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson

Engineered to prevent DIY car maintenance.


Sad...but true.

Eliminates indy car repair shops, too
mad.gif
 

That is how I fill them. I use an adapter and fill pump container from AST.

Check the service manual but most require the fluid level to be checked between 104f-113f. The U660s are a bit sensitive to fluid level so I recommend filling them at 104f to install as much fluid as possible.

Keep in mind that after doing a flush, the transmission will need to sit for 2-3 hours for the fluid temperature to be low enough to start the fluid check process. It takes 2-3 hours for the fluid temp to drop from 120-130f to 90-100f.
 
Originally Posted By: Pelican
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Im getting ready to change the ATF in my 05 LS430 and my son's 09 IS350. Neither one has dipstick. I'm read a little and it seems very important to check the ATF at a certain temp. I have a infrared thermometer whereby I could get some decent temps all over the pan and sort of take an average. OR, i can just drain out what I can while it is cold and simply add that much back.

Is there some device I can purchase that will take the ATF temp? Or should I just assume it was properly filled from the factory?


The proper procedure would require a Lift, a vacuum pump, another pump for the fluid, a vacuum regulator and a special tool made by Toyota if the tranny fluid is above the recommended temp. All this will take approx 1.5 to 2 hrs. NOBODY does it this way as too costly and time consuming. Go to Weber University on U Tube to see it. This is why Toyota/Lexus have a machine that does all this via the cooling lines of the transmission, about 30-45 min time wise. It's precise and IMO well worth the cost.


There are 2 ways to check the fluid level. The SST (with the vacuum device) allows for the fluid to be checked at 185f. The procedure in the service manual requires for the fluid to be checked when it is barely warm. For most shops being able to check the fluid level when hot makes life a lot easier.
 
Originally Posted By: Bebop367
Pretty good write up and how to get to proper level:

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/345

I done it twice with no problems.
Would be whole lot easier with a dipstick.

In the past, we BITOGERS had OCD discussions about what is "level", when doing ATF measurements. This AGCO link says level is when the 4 tires are sitting on a level surface. NOT necessarily the bottom of the rocker panel or unibody "frame" level from front to back. The link also suggests that being more the 1/2" off level could be critical (at least for these Toyotas).

Interesting to someone who leans toward the OCD way of doing things.

THE Critic, is your shop that careful about these details?
overflow_transmission_raise_level.jpg
 
For whatever it's worth, the drain and fill capacity in my manual (07 Tacoma) is spot on, it lists 3.2 U.S. quarts. I usually put in 3.5 and get 1/3 of a quart back out of the check hole. Last time I did a drain/fill I ran 2 quarts out of the cooler lines, then drained the pan, poured it into a graduated jug... 3.2 quarts. I think even if your transmission is underfilled, the underfilled portion is gonna be the pan, unless its severely under filled and there isn't enough fluid to completely fill the rest of the transmission, in which case you'd probably have shifting concerns and/or noise from the pump sucking air.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top