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#4569989 - 11/10/17 02:24 PM NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Aisin does not make a timing kit for this cream puff. Found one on eBay that uses NPW water pump. From what I can read it looks like high quality made in Japan but I have never used one. Can anyone speak to the quality/reliability of the NPW vs Aisin pump? Thanks.

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#4570008 - 11/10/17 02:39 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3013
Loc: Occupied Virginia
NPW is a big company like GMB I think. I'm sure it's more than fine, and most likely way better than the Chinese-made pumps in otherwise-awesome Gates timing kits that many people are using.

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#4570014 - 11/10/17 02:43 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: Bottom_Feeder]
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
NPW is a big company like GMB I think. I'm sure it's more than fine, and most likely way better than the Chinese-made pumps in otherwise-awesome Gates timing kits that many people are using.


Yeah, Gates pumps are junk but apparently so are their kits as they are starting to use generic Chinese idlers. Sorry, no,Gates timing kit for me.

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#4570032 - 11/10/17 02:59 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 7383
Loc: beaver land EH?
why not buy a factory/OEM pump?
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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#4570068 - 11/10/17 03:42 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
nthach Online   content


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3909
Loc: California
NPW should work fine - it's a Japanese aftermarket pump. Aisin doesn't make the OEM Subaru pump, I believe it's a Hitachi, and if Aisin doesn't make the OEM pump they'll buy one from Yamada or Hitachi and stamp it as their own.

I didn't know that about the Gates kits now using Chinese idlers and tensioners, their Subaru kit was the best you can get outside of a dealer.

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#4570091 - 11/10/17 04:20 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: Quest]
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Quest
why not buy a factory/OEM pump?


About $50 difference and my friend does not have a lot of money and only drives 5 or 6k miles per year.


Edited by artbuc (11/10/17 04:31 PM)

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#4570707 - 11/11/17 10:00 AM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: nthach]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3013
Loc: Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: nthach
I didn't know that about the Gates kits now using Chinese idlers and tensioners, their Subaru kit was the best you can get outside of a dealer.

News to me also. The Gates kit I used a few years ago on my Impreza contained parts that were identical to the OEM parts I removed, except for a single idler that was from a different Japanese bearing company. But it was a while ago so who knows.

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#4571435 - 11/12/17 03:23 AM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: Bottom_Feeder]
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: nthach
I didn't know that about the Gates kits now using Chinese idlers and tensioners, their Subaru kit was the best you can get outside of a dealer.

News to me also. The Gates kit I used a few years ago on my Impreza contained parts that were identical to the OEM parts I removed, except for a single idler that was from a different Japanese bearing company. But it was a while ago so who knows.


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-p...e-bearings.html

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#4572702 - 11/13/17 11:32 AM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3013
Loc: Occupied Virginia
Interesting. Unfortunate but interesting!

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#4572713 - 11/13/17 11:37 AM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
nthach Online   content


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3909
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: nthach
I didn't know that about the Gates kits now using Chinese idlers and tensioners, their Subaru kit was the best you can get outside of a dealer.

News to me also. The Gates kit I used a few years ago on my Impreza contained parts that were identical to the OEM parts I removed, except for a single idler that was from a different Japanese bearing company. But it was a while ago so who knows.


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-p...e-bearings.html

I was quite happy with the Gates timing belt kit I installed on an older Forester.

The good news is that all the Subarus I wrench on for friends don't have timing belts. The bad news is that there two Toyotas with timing belts in the family fleet and while I insist on Aisin for those, having one less "premium" option kinda sucks. I'd be a bit more comfortable with Chinese bearings and tensioners on an non-interference Toyota application(pre-1995 Camrys, trucks and the Lexus LS400/SC400).

Gates has been boxing Chinese-made idlers and tensioners as ala carte items.

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#4572741 - 11/13/17 11:56 AM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 7383
Loc: beaver land EH?
@ Artbuc:

given the rampant counterfeiting RE: bearings and such (mostly from china, some from india), there's really no way a "repackager" such as Gates, etc. can ensure that what the obtained through their sources are indeed 100% reliable or consistent with what the supplier promised (supplier can be cheaters you know).

For T-belt + idler tensioner + water pump job, I now insisted in factory OEM stuff and no "ifs" or "buts" anymore. Yes, it cost a bit more but failure on interference type engines would be equally catastrophic enough for a typical owner to figure out what is the "better" option, money-wise.

Like the old Fram commercials: "pay now or pay later"....


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#4572813 - 11/13/17 12:50 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: Quest]
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Quest
@ Artbuc:

given the rampant counterfeiting RE: bearings and such (mostly from china, some from india), there's really no way a "repackager" such as Gates, etc. can ensure that what the obtained through their sources are indeed 100% reliable or consistent with what the supplier promised (supplier can be cheaters you know).

For T-belt + idler tensioner + water pump job, I now insisted in factory OEM stuff and no "ifs" or "buts" anymore. Yes, it cost a bit more but failure on interference type engines would be equally catastrophic enough for a typical owner to figure out what is the "better" option, money-wise.

Like the old Fram commercials: "pay now or pay later"....



Do you feel the same way about the Aisin kits?

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#4573012 - 11/13/17 04:31 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 7383
Loc: beaver land EH?
nowadays I do not buy timing belt kits in "kit" form, but instead: get belts from Mitsuboshi (or whatever OE specified, sometimes Honda OE north american cars to use Gate t-belts), idler tensioner and water pump from factory, period.

back some 15 yrs ago, I used to buy GMB for most Mazda applications, and NPWs for others such as Honda (Aisin for Toys), but nowadays I cannot be so sure from my supplier level.

For that, I cut to the chase and get factory OEM ones, can't let a water pump or idler tensioner bearing fail me.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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#4573038 - 11/13/17 04:57 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: Quest]
artbuc Offline


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Quest
nowadays I do not buy timing belt kits in "kit" form, but instead: get belts from Mitsuboshi (or whatever OE specified, sometimes Honda OE north american cars to use Gate t-belts), idler tensioner and water pump from factory, period.

back some 15 yrs ago, I used to buy GMB for most Mazda applications, and NPWs for others such as Honda (Aisin for Toys), but nowadays I cannot be so sure from my supplier level.

For that, I cut to the chase and get factory OEM ones, can't let a water pump or idler tensioner bearing fail me.



Interesting. Do you think Aisin would include a fake Mitsuboshi belt or do you think somewhere along the supply chain someone is taking the genuine belt out of the kit and adding a fake?

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#4573300 - 11/13/17 09:25 PM Re: NPW vs Aisin for 07 Outback [Re: artbuc]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 7383
Loc: beaver land EH?
I have used Aisin kits before and no problems with them.

but with the way business practices (most of them are re-boxers of some sort) and constant downward pricing pressure (to remain competitive out there), frankly, I do not know when something's gonna change even with Aisin kits.

Just like B-A in the past: I used to be a faithful follower of B-A stuff until early 2000s, where they went cheap and sourced parts other than Japanese OE stuff (used to get B-A mitsubishi distributor caps for Mazda and are of exact manufacture, but only a fraction of the price of factory units), now I use B-A sparingly, but only as a last resort.

I don't have much faith towards reboxers, to tell you the truth, and one single purchasing mistake (to save 30~60 bux) may ended up costing me a few k $$ for engine repair (out of my cost).

so no thanks, I'd rather err on the cautionary side of things.

BTW: when asked: I do not believe in any major brand names these days, but to do my parts shopping strategically and choose wisely.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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