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Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota #4569765
11/10/17 11:05 AM
11/10/17 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Texasdoc Offline OP
Texasdoc  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Custom 408W in a cobra replica with about 3000 miles total on the motor. I built it with all new parts except the 1982 block. Full machining with line hone, head decking, etc. It has AFR 195 heads. About 1500 miles ago I had to completely rebuild the heads. TWO spring failures (one intake, one exhaust, one on each side) required me to replace all intake valves, 2 exhaust valves, all springs, and all valve guides. No idea why the springs failed. I've checked spring height, seat pressure, verified lift, pushrod length, etc.

Anyway, after the rebuild, I ran Castrol Dino 10W-30 for about 200 miles, then drained, replaced the filter (WIX) and switched to Valvoline VR1 10W30. This oil had about 1000 miles. After I replaced the oil, I noted the motor was pinging a bit. I have reduced the timing to eliminate the pinging.

I'm not sure where the Aluminum, chromium, Iron, Copper, and Silicon is coming from. Not sure if it is left over from the rebuild or something new going on. I run a K&N air filter with a PCV system so I don't know where dirt/silicon could be getting in.

While draining this oil, it looked a lot darker/dirtier than the previous Castrol, so I went back to Castrol (white bottle). It also seems to run smoother/quieter with the Castrol. It has roller lifters and rockers, so I don't really need the increased Zinc of the VR1.

Any thoughts? Where do you think this combination of metals is coming from?

Code:
Aluminum   26
Chromium    8
Iron       61
Copper     19 
Lead        5
Tin         1
Molybdenum 22
Nickel      1
Manganese   2
Silver      0 
Titanium    2
Potassium   4
Boron      29
Silicon   236
Sodium    285
Calcium  2016
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 1127 
Zinc.    1319
Barium.   0

SUS   58.8
cST   9.89



Last edited by Texasdoc; 11/10/17 11:17 AM.
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569779
11/10/17 11:12 AM
11/10/17 11:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Sounds like a fun car!

At only 3000 miles on what is a new engine, I'd think those are still initial wear metals. You should see the numbers come down over the next 10k-20k miles. That's my opinion, and of course a few more UOAs are in order to watch the trends.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Kuato] #4569803
11/10/17 11:22 AM
11/10/17 11:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Kuato


At only 3000 miles on what is a new engine, I'd think those are still initial wear metals.


I agree, even though "High Perf Aftermarket" parts are designed to make HP, the machine work is usually pretty bad.

You can expect a fair amount of metal as everything wears in - - and I don't see anything alarming about your numbers.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569807
11/10/17 11:24 AM
11/10/17 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Silicon can come from sealant.

K&N filters are pretty porous and let a fair amount of dust through.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569821
11/10/17 11:33 AM
11/10/17 11:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,329
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,329
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Your Si numbers are pretty high, that would account for the high wear metals, along with still breaking in. I didn't see what filter you were using, I would try a high efficiency filter like a Royal Purple, Fram Ultra, or even a Fram Tough Guard to try to catch as much crud as possible-and either cut open the filter or send it to someone here to see what it is catching. A K&N air filter is a rock catcher, if your part of TX is the least bit dusty a better filter, or a foam pre filter over your K&N, would also be a smart move.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569855
11/10/17 11:51 AM
11/10/17 11:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,820
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,820
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
That Silicone is huge! How much sealer was used? Hopefully that much is not getting past the air filter.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569960
11/10/17 01:44 PM
11/10/17 01:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,436
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,436
New England
This report scared me off K&N air filters, actually returned one that I had purchased but not used.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4569992
11/10/17 02:27 PM
11/10/17 02:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Texasdoc Offline OP
Texasdoc  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
I have the typical oval Cobra-style filter. Due to hood restrictions, I can't use a 14" round filter. I tried a 9 inch round that was about an inch taller, but actually had less filter area. I can go back to the paper filter.

I'm going to watch the silicone. It may just be resetting the oil pan, heads and intake.

I am using the WIX 51515 - standard Ford F1A size. Most of what I've read states that as long as it is a decent filter (aka: not Fram) they are all about the same. It is not a racing filter with a 70 micron filter size. I did cut one open between the Castrol and the VR1 and didn't find any metal bits.

Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4570064
11/10/17 03:39 PM
11/10/17 03:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Texasdoc Offline OP
Texasdoc  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Since I have an open hood scoop, I need a filter that will tolerate getting wet. I don't plan on driving in the rain, but have gotten wet a few times. The paper filters won't work. If they get wet in the rain, they will dissolve. WIX makes a cellulose filter that may work. Is cellulose a paper, cotton, or foam filter?

Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4570076
11/10/17 03:55 PM
11/10/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
Texasdoc Offline OP
Texasdoc  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Texas
The WIX cellulose filter is a paper filter.

Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4570700
11/11/17 09:55 AM
11/11/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 142
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
advocate Offline
advocate  Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 142
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Ditch the K&N and go back to a paper filter for best filtration while you are sorting things out with this engine. Also don't be afraid of Fram oil filters, they are good! They have a better filter media then the Wix or Ford/Motorcraft/Purolator filter. A filter that filters better will do nothing but help you out. Any Fram will do with your short intervals, the extra guard, tough guard, Ultra or their Racing line even.

Fram Racing Oil Filter

Re: Ford 408W, 10W-30 VR1, 1000 mi interval, 5000 tota [Re: Texasdoc] #4570750
11/11/17 10:43 AM
11/11/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
See if AEM makes a fibered (not paper) filter that fits your oval air cleaner.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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