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#4569475 - 11/10/17 06:02 AM Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 9001
Loc: Southeast Florida
http://flip.it/9d0OUu

BMW battery-sourcing ethics highlight cobalt-mining issue for electric cars.
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#4569480 - 11/10/17 06:06 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
StevieC Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 17116
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Sad but true... Same like Diamonds, Oil and anything else that is in demand. frown
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#4569481 - 11/10/17 06:12 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40206
Loc: 'Stralia

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#4569483 - 11/10/17 06:19 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
Danno Online   content


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2023
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Even first world countries have to deal with issues around mineral extraction. With the good (jobs) comes other less desirable side effects. This town isn't too far from where I live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt,_Ontario

And just for an interesting off-topic - check this out. Within a few miles/kms of Cobalt, Ontario.

It han't sold in 7 years and is now starting auction for property taxes owed. Auction starts at $150,000

http://canuckpost.com/canadas-largest-home-the-billion-dollar-home-youve-never-heard-about/

https://www.northernontario.travel/north...s-boating-mecca
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#4569488 - 11/10/17 06:23 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 9001
Loc: Southeast Florida
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
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#4569498 - 11/10/17 06:41 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5824
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.
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#4569501 - 11/10/17 06:44 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: Danno]
StevieC Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 17116
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Danno
Even first world countries have to deal with issues around mineral extraction. With the good (jobs) comes other less desirable side effects. This town isn't too far from where I live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt,_Ontario

And just for an interesting off-topic - check this out. Within a few miles/kms of Cobalt, Ontario.

It han't sold in 7 years and is now starting auction for property taxes owed. Auction starts at $150,000

http://canuckpost.com/canadas-largest-home-the-billion-dollar-home-youve-never-heard-about/

https://www.northernontario.travel/north...s-boating-mecca



I wonder if they will find cobalt in the ring of fire and if we can ever get that road built I should make a lot of money off KWG / Norant.
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#4569543 - 11/10/17 07:29 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4110
Loc: Midwest USA
Are there any ETF's or other investment instruments for Cobalt mining right now? However, since the only thing driving Cobalt upward is battery technology and since battery tech is constantly evolving and there are some other battery technologies emerging that hold promise beyond what lithium/cobalt can deliver there also stands the chance of a bust happening to commodity prices for lithium and cobalt if a break through is made in other directions regarding battery technology, yes?
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#4569549 - 11/10/17 07:38 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5824
Loc: Illinois
Texas Engineers Develop New Material for Better Lithium-Ion Batteries

http://www.engr.utexas.edu/news/8279-idea-battery-anode

Novel electrode materials promise significant performance improvements and have been the focus of extensive scientific and energy research for decades. However, many efforts to improve lithium-ion battery electrodes have focused on building new nanomaterials atom by atom, a process that scales up inefficiently and prevents commercial viability.

UT researchers in the Cockrell School of Engineering have developed a new tin-aluminum anode (material on right), dubbed the Interdigitated Eutectic Alloy (IdEA) anode. The material shows twice the charge storage capacity of the typical copper-graphite anode (material on left).
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#4569588 - 11/10/17 08:04 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: SHOZ]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36606
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?
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#4569599 - 11/10/17 08:10 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: OVERKILL]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5824
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?
Not yet.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program
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#4569618 - 11/10/17 08:34 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2916
Loc: california
Says a lot about the high ethics of people at BMW towards poor Congolese people. Too bad other companies and countries are not so interested. How about those cell phones and their batteries, slave labor.

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#4569676 - 11/10/17 09:36 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: SHOZ]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36606
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?
Not yet.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program


Thanks. So looks to be roughly 60% recycling at this time using Tesla's program.
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#4569682 - 11/10/17 09:39 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...


I recall reading an article of which the premise was that a 10-mpg Hummer was no worse for the environment than the 55-mpg Prius.

The article described the mining and transportation of the materials to make the batteries (and associated fuel used and environmental damage), the manufacturing processes (dangerous chemical waste) and the transportation of the batteries to the assembly facility. Lastly, it described the environmental impact of the disposal of those batteries.

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#4569684 - 11/10/17 09:39 AM Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 5824
Loc: Illinois
Yes at this time. But that will improve. The company I worked for making LA batteries use to just landfill the waste back in the 70's before EPA. So that has come a long way. We made mostly cadmium alloy batteries for the industrial AGMs back in the 80s and 90s. The scrap had to be shipped back to Canada as the US did not allow recycling of that here.
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