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Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars #4569475
11/10/17 07:02 AM
11/10/17 07:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,571
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,571
Kendall, FL
http://flip.it/9d0OUu

BMW battery-sourcing ethics highlight cobalt-mining issue for electric cars.


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569480
11/10/17 07:06 AM
11/10/17 07:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,522
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,522
Ontario, Canada
Sad but true... Same like Diamonds, Oil and anything else that is in demand. frown


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569481
11/10/17 07:12 AM
11/10/17 07:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,215
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,215
'Stralia

Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569483
11/10/17 07:19 AM
11/10/17 07:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,174
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,174
Northern Ontario, Canada
Even first world countries have to deal with issues around mineral extraction. With the good (jobs) comes other less desirable side effects. This town isn't too far from where I live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt,_Ontario

And just for an interesting off-topic - check this out. Within a few miles/kms of Cobalt, Ontario.

It han't sold in 7 years and is now starting auction for property taxes owed. Auction starts at $150,000

http://canuckpost.com/canadas-largest-home-the-billion-dollar-home-youve-never-heard-about/

https://www.northernontario.travel/north...s-boating-mecca


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569488
11/10/17 07:23 AM
11/10/17 07:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,571
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,571
Kendall, FL
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569498
11/10/17 07:41 AM
11/10/17 07:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: Danno] #4569501
11/10/17 07:44 AM
11/10/17 07:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,522
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,522
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Danno
Even first world countries have to deal with issues around mineral extraction. With the good (jobs) comes other less desirable side effects. This town isn't too far from where I live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt,_Ontario

And just for an interesting off-topic - check this out. Within a few miles/kms of Cobalt, Ontario.

It han't sold in 7 years and is now starting auction for property taxes owed. Auction starts at $150,000

http://canuckpost.com/canadas-largest-home-the-billion-dollar-home-youve-never-heard-about/

https://www.northernontario.travel/north...s-boating-mecca



I wonder if they will find cobalt in the ring of fire and if we can ever get that road built I should make a lot of money off KWG / Norant.


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569543
11/10/17 08:29 AM
11/10/17 08:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,266
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,266
Midwest USA
Are there any ETF's or other investment instruments for Cobalt mining right now? However, since the only thing driving Cobalt upward is battery technology and since battery tech is constantly evolving and there are some other battery technologies emerging that hold promise beyond what lithium/cobalt can deliver there also stands the chance of a bust happening to commodity prices for lithium and cobalt if a break through is made in other directions regarding battery technology, yes?



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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569549
11/10/17 08:38 AM
11/10/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
Texas Engineers Develop New Material for Better Lithium-Ion Batteries

http://www.engr.utexas.edu/news/8279-idea-battery-anode

Novel electrode materials promise significant performance improvements and have been the focus of extensive scientific and energy research for decades. However, many efforts to improve lithium-ion battery electrodes have focused on building new nanomaterials atom by atom, a process that scales up inefficiently and prevents commercial viability.

UT researchers in the Cockrell School of Engineering have developed a new tin-aluminum anode (material on right), dubbed the Interdigitated Eutectic Alloy (IdEA) anode. The material shows twice the charge storage capacity of the typical copper-graphite anode (material on left).


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: SHOZ] #4569588
11/10/17 09:04 AM
11/10/17 09:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,498
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,498
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?


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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: OVERKILL] #4569599
11/10/17 09:10 AM
11/10/17 09:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?
Not yet.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569618
11/10/17 09:34 AM
11/10/17 09:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,081
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,081
Tennessee
Says a lot about the high ethics of people at BMW towards poor Congolese people. Too bad other companies and countries are not so interested. How about those cell phones and their batteries, slave labor.

Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: SHOZ] #4569676
11/10/17 10:36 AM
11/10/17 10:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,498
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,498
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...
Recycle. 99% of a lead acid battery is recycled, plastic, lead and acid.


Does the same percentage apply to Lithium Ion and other battery technologies?
Not yet.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program


Thanks. So looks to be roughly 60% recycling at this time using Tesla's program.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569682
11/10/17 10:39 AM
11/10/17 10:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: wemay
We would all like to think electric cars and the production of said technologies is clean. In actuality it appears to be just as, if not more destructive to the planet once the scales approach level production with the ICE (internal combustion engine). Then there's the question of how do we dispose of these filthy, toxic batteries...


I recall reading an article of which the premise was that a 10-mpg Hummer was no worse for the environment than the 55-mpg Prius.

The article described the mining and transportation of the materials to make the batteries (and associated fuel used and environmental damage), the manufacturing processes (dangerous chemical waste) and the transportation of the batteries to the assembly facility. Lastly, it described the environmental impact of the disposal of those batteries.



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Re: Ethics of cobalt mining for electric cars [Re: wemay] #4569684
11/10/17 10:39 AM
11/10/17 10:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,926
Illinois
Yes at this time. But that will improve. The company I worked for making LA batteries use to just landfill the waste back in the 70's before EPA. So that has come a long way. We made mostly cadmium alloy batteries for the industrial AGMs back in the 80s and 90s. The scrap had to be shipped back to Canada as the US did not allow recycling of that here.


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2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
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