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5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? #4569365
11/10/17 12:02 AM
11/10/17 12:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Australia
Profrat Offline OP
Profrat  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Australia
Hi People. I have been running my high milage (250,000km+) 2001 Mitsubishi express van (2.4l Petrol) on Full PAO-Ester base 10W40 Pentite 10-tenths Racing.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/categories/racing/racing-10w-40-pao-ester

I buy it on special sales at a reasonable price. I am hoping to get another few thousand km from the engine, at least. smile

I do a lot of high milage travelling in my van, mostly in ambient teperatures between 20C and 35C, occasionally up to 40C. Most common highway cruising speed 95-100 KMH. On some trips I am towing a light trailer.

I recently bought 20L of Nulon 5W-30 Full synthetic 'European' (PAO base) which was on sale 30% off for my VW-R36 Passat. This oil meets the VW 505/507 spec (amongst others). This is a no brainer for the VW of course.

https://www.nulon.com.au/products/full-synthetic-engine-oils/full-synthetic-5w-30-euro-engine-oil

But now I have the chance to buy 20l of this this same oil at a huge discount (1/3rd price and half the price of the Penrite oil) and that made me consider running it in the Mitsubishi van.

My problem is that the recommendations in the Mitsubishi manual are confusing to me.



The manual calls for API SG or higher oil.

It says 10W-30 is good from -25C to 40C (it would never get below -10C anywhere I ever go!)

BUT, why does it say 5w-30 is only good up to 10C ? (I am assuming this was written with conventional Mineral oils in mind).

Is not 30 grade oil always 30 grade?

And given the advances in oil since 2001, and the very high quality of this particular oil, would this oil be perectly good to run for what I do and give me great long engine life and protection?

Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4569375
11/10/17 12:26 AM
11/10/17 12:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Australia
Profrat Offline OP
Profrat  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Australia
I forget to mention that my oil change interval is as per the manual at 15,000Km, which is roughly every 6 months.

Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4569379
11/10/17 12:33 AM
11/10/17 12:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
You nailed it on the reasons for the 5W30 being listed at such a low temperature.

That oil will be fine...

Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4569413
11/10/17 02:24 AM
11/10/17 02:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,815
New Zealand
Silk Online content
Silk  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,815
New Zealand
Mitsubishi New Zealand recommend 5W-30 for them - we don't get those temps in NZ, but there would be a lot more work on hills. Go for it.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4569495
11/10/17 07:37 AM
11/10/17 07:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
I don't think the 5W30 grade is a problem for you at all, but that Nulon is a low SAPS oil with a low starting TBN (5.4, typical for a mass market US oil might be about 8) and that I would guess also has a low dose of ZDDP.
ACEA 3 oils like that seem to be targeted to Euro passenger diesels and may not be the best match for gasoline applications due to their low detergent content...I guess the sulfur level of the gas used is a major factor here, the US is supposed to be transitioning to low sulfur (10 ppm??) but there are presently exclusions for smaller refineries and sulfur credit trading seems to be allowed. This suggests to me that it is still more than possible to get higher sulfur gas here, I have no idea what the situation is in your country!
I have used a somewhat similar oil (M1 5W30 ESP), but was careful to use it for only about 5000 miles. BITOGer edyvw shared here that some MB dealers were rather blindly using that oil for long OCIs and causing sludging problems due to the high sulfur gas used at that time.

On the other hand, that Penrite you have been using is a massive SAPS oil! Huge dose of ZDDP as well as a starting TBN of 9.8 that is indicative of a heavy detergent pack. You would really be swinging to the other extreme with the new oil compared to the Penrite.
I'm not going to swear that your engine would grenade on the Nulon, I think you should just be aware that it is a very different oil from what you have been using and give some thought as to whether it is a good fit for your application. I think the Nulon would be fine for sure on short OCIs and maybe good for longer if low sulfur gas is the rule in your country.
Cheers!

Last edited by Virtus_Probi; 11/10/17 07:38 AM.

2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4569502
11/10/17 07:46 AM
11/10/17 07:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657
Canada
camrydriver111 Offline
camrydriver111  Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657
Canada
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
BITOGer edyvw shared here that some MB dealers were rather blindly using that oil for long OCIs and causing sludging problems due to the high sulfur gas used at that time.


Why would MB USA even carry that oil if we don't use low sulfur gas?


BITOG or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Extended OCI
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Shannow] #4569640
11/10/17 10:01 AM
11/10/17 10:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Shannow
You nailed it on the reasons for the 5W30 being listed at such a low temperature.

That oil will be fine...


Yes; we've run across this before. IIRC back in 2001, 5w30 oils sheared badly out of grade, while 10w30 oils did not. Modern 5w30 should be ok.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4569800
11/10/17 12:21 PM
11/10/17 12:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
However...if you're concerned, why not mix the 5w30 with some thicker Nulon...that would bring the viscosity up to what the chart recommends.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: camrydriver111] #4569965
11/10/17 02:54 PM
11/10/17 02:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
BITOGer edyvw shared here that some MB dealers were rather blindly using that oil for long OCIs and causing sludging problems due to the high sulfur gas used at that time.


Why would MB USA even carry that oil if we don't use low sulfur gas?


Believe that M1 5W30 ESP was a good choice for MB passenger diesels and some dealers just decided to make it easy on themselves and use it in everything.
Maybe edyvw can give more details if he was actually the poster that brought this up, it was a while ago and I could have the wrong guy there.
XOM customer service freaked out on me when I asked a question about using that oil in my DIT gasser and told me that their oil warranty would not apply in my application!


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4570368
11/10/17 11:07 PM
11/10/17 11:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
zeng Online content
zeng  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I don't think the 5W30 grade is a problem for you at all, but that Nulon is a low SAPS oil with a low starting TBN (5.4, typical for a mass market US oil might be about 8) and that I would guess also has a low dose of ZDDP.
ACEA 3 oils like that seem to be targeted to Euro passenger diesels and may not be the best match for gasoline applications due to their low detergent content...I guess the sulfur level of the gas used is a major factor here, the US is supposed to be transitioning to low sulfur (10 ppm??) but there are presently exclusions for smaller refineries and sulfur credit trading seems to be allowed. This suggests to me that it is still more than possible to get higher sulfur gas here, I have no idea what the situation is in your country!
I have used a somewhat similar oil (M1 5W30 ESP), but was careful to use it for only about 5000 miles. BITOGer edyvw shared here that some MB dealers were rather blindly using that oil for long OCIs and causing sludging problems due to the high sulfur gas used at that time.

I too was cautioned against long OCI for a mid SaPS C3 with Euro II 500 ppm sulfur gasoline.
Blotter spot tests at 6200 miles from two C3 5W40 of differing brands demonstrates they aren't inferior to semi-synthetic Total 10W40 A3B4 blotters of similar mileage.

I've no doubt this Nulon 5W30 VW 504 507 C3 would be doing fine in the OP's Mitsubishi.
With cleaner fuel and assuming OP has port injection, 6000 -10,000 miles is likely doable, IMHO.

Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4570430
11/11/17 01:16 AM
11/11/17 01:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,629
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,629
Down Under
Hi Mate, that Nulon 5W30 European is a PAO (Group IV) based full synthetic that carries the very tough VW 505/507 spec, as a formal factory approval. It's a very high quality oil.

Yes it could easily take the temperatures you are throwing at it, and more. The 5W30 temperature chart was assuming low quality mineral oils. Temperature wise I am sure you will be fine.

However it's a low-SAPS and low-TBN oil, so I'm not sure about the distance you will take it. Obviously VW are happy with it, but to me this low TBN level makes me a little nervous to push the OCI too far. I would feel more comfortable at 10,000 KM / 6000 miles but this may be a deal breaker for you.

I know in Oz the PULP (95 or 98 RON) has a lower sulphur level than the regular ULP (91 RON) so better fuel would make me relax more.

Maybe a formulator can jump in here, does the higher quality PAO base make up for the lower SAPS / TBN levels when it comes to longer oil change intervals (OCI) ?

BTW hasn't Nulon really picked up their game recently with formal factory approvals for their full synthetics. They make this PAO based VW 505/507 oil - a very high quality spec, plus their other full synthetic carries Dexos1 - Gen2 and it's listed on the American GM web page as an approved oil.


Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: SR5] #4570440
11/11/17 02:10 AM
11/11/17 02:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,207
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: SR5
BTW hasn't Nulon really picked up their game recently with formal factory approvals for their full synthetics. They make this PAO based VW 505/507 oil - a very high quality spec, plus their other full synthetic carries Dexos1 - Gen2 and it's listed on the American GM web page as an approved oil.


Yeah, I still remember our PMs back when you were a Newbie...I'm having to eat my hat ATM (although still stand by what I said a couple years ago)

Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4570453
11/11/17 04:10 AM
11/11/17 04:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
zeng Online content
zeng  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
Btw, an xW30 with VW 504.00 is a top extended drain interval oil in appropriate VW gasoline engines.


Last edited by zeng; 11/11/17 04:10 AM.
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Profrat] #4570455
11/11/17 04:16 AM
11/11/17 04:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
There is no maximum temperature range, but remember KV100 is measured at 100c so straying from that temp will directly affect the KV.

Unless modified use what the manual suggests.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: 5W-30 V's 10W-30. Max temperature range? [Re: Shannow] #4570457
11/11/17 04:30 AM
11/11/17 04:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,629
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,629
Down Under
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SR5
BTW hasn't Nulon really picked up their game recently with formal factory approvals for their full synthetics. They make this PAO based VW 505/507 oil - a very high quality spec, plus their other full synthetic carries Dexos1 - Gen2 and it's listed on the American GM web page as an approved oil.


Yeah, I still remember our PMs back when you were a Newbie...I'm having to eat my hat ATM (although still stand by what I said a couple years ago)


Yep ...them were the days.
You spent a lot of time explaining things to me, thank you.


Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
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