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#4566235 - 11/06/17 07:48 PM Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear
HighlanderBH Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Brazil
Most people say Honda MTF 06 is a 75w80 mineral oil. The Honda MTF II is not avaiable here. And I want a better oil for my Honda.

So, is there any problem on using Motul GEAR 300 75w90 or Motul MotylGear 75w80 in a 2007 Civic Si manual transmission?

Would the Motul GEAR 300 LS 75w90 be better than the non LS version? The 2007 Civic Si uses a Torsen differential.

In order of preference, which of these oils should i use?

Thanks!

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#4566398 - 11/07/17 01:04 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
For the manual transmission use the MotylGear 75W80.

Use the MOTYLGEAR 75W-90 for the differential.

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#4566615 - 11/07/17 09:09 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Best fluid I have used in my 2010 Si is Redline MTL.
_________________________
Mighty Mouse Tech
Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL

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#4566632 - 11/07/17 09:21 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
For the manual transmission use the MotylGear 75W80.

Use the MOTYLGEAR 75W-90 for the differential.


The diff is inside the trans.
_________________________
Mighty Mouse Tech
Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL

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#4566767 - 11/07/17 11:39 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: mightymousetech]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
For the manual transmission use the MotylGear 75W80.

Use the MOTYLGEAR 75W-90 for the differential.


The diff is inside the trans.


Then the assembly is a transaxle.

IS the differential composed of Spider gears or does it have a hypoid arrangement?

What does the owners manual state or specify?

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#4567124 - 11/07/17 06:56 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
HighlanderBH Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Then the assembly is a transaxle.

IS the differential composed of Spider gears or does it have a hypoid arrangement?

What does the owners manual state or specify?


The owners manual doesn't contain this data. But we can check the HondaPartsNow for the differential:

https://www.hondapartsnow.com/parts-list/2007-honda-civic-4dr_si-ka-6mt/mt-differential-2-0l.html

Everyone says that the Civic Si uses a Torsen LSD. And it's FWD.

It's good to know we can use the MotylGear 75w80 for the manual transmission.

But how about the Motul GEAR 300 75w90? LS and non LS versions? Could they be used too? Are they better than the MotylGear 75w80, because they are fully synthetic oils?

Thanks!

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#4567180 - 11/07/17 07:46 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2190
Loc: Malaysia
Other than being fully synthetic, of course Gear 300 75W90 is better.
It's ester based, 0% shear loss as claimed and provides stronger wear protection in higher MOFT in Si application and ..in tropical ambients of yours.

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#4567216 - 11/07/17 08:24 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
What does the owners manual state or specify in terms of fluid specifications?

If you are in the mountains at high elevations and cold temps then the 75W80 is your best bet.

If you are at or near sea level and warm temps then the 75W90 may be better.

Both oils are synthetic and contain the same AW additives. With a Torsen diff you don't need a hypoid differential fluid.

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#4568197 - 11/08/17 07:08 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
HighlanderBH Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What does the owners manual state or specify in terms of fluid specifications?

If you are in the mountains at high elevations and cold temps then the 75W80 is your best bet.

If you are at or near sea level and warm temps then the 75W90 may be better.

Both oils are synthetic and contain the same AW additives. With a Torsen diff you don't need a hypoid differential fluid.


This is what the owner's manual states:

"If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says ‘‘FOR GASOLINE ENGINES’’ as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convenient."

However, the owners manual doesn't specify the Honda MTF properties.

I'm at 2600 ft. But the temperature range is from 50 F to 95 F. Shall I use Motul GEAR 300 75W90?

Thanks!

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#4568804 - 11/09/17 11:30 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: HighlanderBH
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What does the owners manual state or specify in terms of fluid specifications?

If you are in the mountains at high elevations and cold temps then the 75W80 is your best bet.

If you are at or near sea level and warm temps then the 75W90 may be better.

Both oils are synthetic and contain the same AW additives. With a Torsen diff you don't need a hypoid differential fluid.


This is what the owner's manual states:

"If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says ‘‘FOR GASOLINE ENGINES’’ as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convenient."

However, the owners manual doesn't specify the Honda MTF properties.

I'm at 2600 ft. But the temperature range is from 50 F to 95 F. Shall I use Motul GEAR 300 75W90?

Thanks!


If that is what the manual says, then they are wanting to keep you in the [email protected] range of fluids, and the 75W90's are NOT in that viscosity range.

This group of MTL’s are in the 9.6 to 10.X cSt range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF

7. Motylgear 75W-80

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#4569140 - 11/09/17 06:03 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
HighlanderBH Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
If that is what the manual says, then they are wanting to keep you in the [email protected] range of fluids, and the 75W90's are NOT in that viscosity range.

This group of MTL’s are in the 9.6 to 10.X cSt range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF

7. Motylgear 75W-80


Only Motul oils are available here. The Honda MTF 06 (possibly 75W80) is available too, but the gear shift is notchy when hot. And the Honda it's a mineral oil.

Considering that the Motul GEAR 300 75W90 (fully synthetic) is superior to the Motul Motylgear 75W80 (blend), what are the possible problems when using 75W90? Would a 75W90 oil cause premature wear or any other failures?

On the other hand, would the Motul Motylgear 75W80 be a better choice, because it's 75W80, even if it is blend?

Thanks!

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#4569394 - 11/10/17 12:09 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HighlanderBH
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What does the owners manual state or specify in terms of fluid specifications?

If you are in the mountains at high elevations and cold temps then the 75W80 is your best bet.

If you are at or near sea level and warm temps then the 75W90 may be better.

Both oils are synthetic and contain the same AW additives. With a Torsen diff you don't need a hypoid differential fluid.


This is what the owner's manual states:

"If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says ‘‘FOR GASOLINE ENGINES’’ as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convenient."

However, the owners manual doesn't specify the Honda MTF properties.

I'm at 2600 ft. But the temperature range is from 50 F to 95 F. Shall I use Motul GEAR 300 75W90?

Thanks!


If that is what the manual says, then they are wanting to keep you in the [email protected] range of fluids, and the 75W90's are NOT in that viscosity range.

This group of MTL’s are in the 9.6 to 10.X cSt range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF

7. Motylgear 75W-80


I am thrice recommending you use the Motylgear 75W-80 because of its viscosity range.

Just because something is synthetic doesn't mean it is superior. The full synthetic has a higher viscosity (as I have twice mentioned) that could cause hard shifting in cold temps.

If you are dead set on using the 75W90 then it is your transmission and I could care less.


Edited by MolaKule (11/10/17 12:10 AM)

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#4569561 - 11/10/17 07:48 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: MolaKule]
HighlanderBH Offline


Registered: 07/05/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Brazil
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I am thrice recommending you use the Motylgear 75W-80 because of its viscosity range.

Just because something is synthetic doesn't mean it is superior. The full synthetic has a higher viscosity (as I have twice mentioned) that could cause hard shifting in cold temps.

If you are dead set on using the 75W90 then it is your transmission and I could care less.


I'm not "dead set" on anything. I'm just trying to understand how this works.

As Zeng said, the Motul GEAR 300 has some properties that the Motul Motylgear don't:

"PERFORMANCES

STANDARDS API GL4 and GL5 / MIL-L-2105D

100% synthetic extreme pressure lubricant for an efficient anti-wear protection, a better resistance at high temperature and a longer life time.
0% shear loss : Unshearable oil film in extreme conditions.
Stays in 90 grade after KRL 20 hours shear test as requested by SAE J306 standard, July 1998 update.
Very high lubricating power which decreases friction and wear.
90 grade at hot temperature to provide outstanding oil film resistance at hot temperature and/or to reduce transmission noise.
Fluid at low temperature to allow easier gear shifting when the gearbox is cold.
Less effort required on the gear lever to shift the gears.
Suitable for any type of seal and yellow material used in gearboxes design.
Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam."


But it's wrong viscosity. If viscosity is more important for a oil than this properties, so I have no problem with Motul Motylgear or any other 75W80 oil.

Best regards,

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#4569610 - 11/10/17 08:23 AM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2190
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: HighlanderBH
Only Motul oils are available here. The Honda MTF 06 (possibly 75W80) is available too, but the gear shift is notchy when hot. And the Honda it's a mineral oil.

Notchy gear shift when hot would be a bitter pill to swallow for me personally, as most transaxles are driven 'hot' most of the time other than the initial 5 minutes or 10 after cold start in a winter season.
Heck, there isn't any winter season in Brazil or SE Asia.

Quote:
Considering that the Motul GEAR 300 75W90 (fully synthetic) is superior to the Motul Motylgear 75W80 (blend), what are the possible problems when using 75W90?

You are spot on in suggesting Motul Gear 300 75W90 being fully synthetic, is superior to Motylgear 75W80 as far as base oil is concerned.
Besides , the thicker minimum oil film thickness MOFT in a 75W90 could potentially prolong or double components life of say, bearings and gears within the transaxle.
Possible problems ?
Absolutely zero problem vis-a-vis 75W80 for tropical Brazil as there isn't a winter season that could potentially lead to cold shift issue, an issue which I believe had often been unjustifiably 'attributed' solely to a thicker 75W90 in manual trans or transaxle on this board.
As you noted above, original Honda MTF as recommended by OEM and happens to be 'thin' could cause shift issue too!

Quote:
Would a 75W90 oil cause premature wear or any other failures?

Absolutely no.
Physics says, the thicker MOFT in a 75W90 could prolong components life instead.
Assuming identical add packs in both oil grades , could a 75W90 performance lasts longer ?
I would think so, if it matters.

Quote:
On the other hand, would the Motul Motylgear 75W80 be a better choice, because it's 75W80, even if it is blend?

In physics, no . Other than the 'elusive' cold shift annoyance, which isn't an issue in tropical Brazil.

Edit:Oops, miss your post above.


Edited by zeng (11/10/17 08:25 AM)

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#4569901 - 11/10/17 12:31 PM Re: Honda MTF 06 VS Motul Gear 300 VS Motul MotylGear [Re: HighlanderBH]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2053
Loc: Slovenia
Originally Posted By: HighlanderBH

This is what the owner's manual states:

"If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says ‘‘FOR GASOLINE ENGINES’’ as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convenient."






But they are both API GL4.....in comparison with other motoroils
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD various 10w40

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