Synthetic 2 Stroke Oil Benefits?

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I've been running synthetic 2 stroke oil ever since my local WM added their house brand to their shelves. It very well could be the placebo effect, but the engines seem to smoke much less? Engine performance seems to be about the same. I try to strictly run high octane fuel unless I'm in a pinch.

Anyone else notice this? What other benefits exist with synthetic 2 stroke oils?
 
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less carbon depositing and less wear are probably the two biggest factors. some synthetics are able to run at higher ratios and still protect. higher film strength is important in 2 smokes..
 
Most important thing is heat. Synthetics can handle higher heat. Less stuck rings, etc.

No need to run high octane unless owners manual calls for it. Or unless you have turned up the timing
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Most important thing is heat. Synthetics can handle higher heat. Less stuck rings, etc.

No need to run high octane unless owners manual calls for it. Or unless you have turned up the timing
laugh.gif



My main reason is that it's E0.

2-3 gallons a year isn't going to break the bank.
smile.gif
 
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I think it's more important to run a two stroke oil that was made for the intended purpose.
Running TCW3 in a weed eater although I am sure someone has been getting away with it for years produces hard carbon which sticks rings, blocks exhaust ports and causes issues.
Contrary to popular belief very high mix ratios ( less oil, more gas ) do not mean less carbon. I have always run rich ratios, 40:1 being the highest without carbon issues.
More oil produces more power and less wear. It's been documented. High ratios are no different than cafe standards.
They are the product of the EPA. Smoke doesn't bother me and I own and have always owned alot of two strokes with no issues but have seen the issues of TCW3 in ring sticking and carbon in non marine application.
 
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Most important thing is heat. Synthetics can handle higher heat. Less stuck rings, etc.

No need to run high octane unless owners manual calls for it. Or unless you have turned up the timing
laugh.gif



My main reason is that it's E0.

2-3 gallons a year isn't going to break the bank.
smile.gif



It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.

I've never used synthetic two cycle oil. I run conventional TC3 in air cooled engines and TCW3 in liquid cooled engines and I generally run more oil than recommended depending on which type of engine. Air cooled engines get 32-40:1 oil mix. My liquid cooled outboards are rated at 100:1 but I prefer to run about 70:1. No issues ever with either.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Most important thing is heat. Synthetics can handle higher heat. Less stuck rings, etc.

No need to run high octane unless owners manual calls for it. Or unless you have turned up the timing
laugh.gif



My main reason is that it's E0.

2-3 gallons a year isn't going to break the bank.
smile.gif



It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.

I've never used synthetic two cycle oil. I run conventional TC3 in air cooled engines and TCW3 in liquid cooled engines and I generally run more oil than recommended depending on which type of engine. Air cooled engines get 32-40:1 oil mix. My liquid cooled outboards are rated at 100:1 but I prefer to run about 70:1. No issues ever with either.


I agree regarding the high octane, especially in older 2 strokes. The problem lies in this - try to find E0 that isn't premium. Rarer than a hen's tooth in MN...
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus

It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.


Where did you read that nonsense?
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: boraticus

It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.


Where did you read that nonsense?


Please advise of any two cycle manufacturer that recommends high octane fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Most important thing is heat. Synthetics can handle higher heat. Less stuck rings, etc.

No need to run high octane unless owners manual calls for it. Or unless you have turned up the timing
laugh.gif



My main reason is that it's E0.

2-3 gallons a year isn't going to break the bank.
smile.gif



It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.

I've never used synthetic two cycle oil. I run conventional TC3 in air cooled engines and TCW3 in liquid cooled engines and I generally run more oil than recommended depending on which type of engine. Air cooled engines get 32-40:1 oil mix. My liquid cooled outboards are rated at 100:1 but I prefer to run about 70:1. No issues ever with either.


Stihl does.
https://www.stihlusa.com/information/articles/gasoline-guidelines-outdoor-power-equipment/

89 octane MINIMUM. I run 91 alky free in my Stihls.
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: boraticus

It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.


Where did you read that nonsense?


Actually, I had a 1977 Evinrude 15 hp. Engines from that era were not designed to run on 92-93 octane. Go Google it.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus

It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.


Echo, Stihl, Husqvarna and Poulan all recommend 89 Octane as a MINIMUM. The only other fuel related warnings they come with is not to use gas with more than 10% ethanol.

Also, If high octane fuel was bad for 2 strokes or other small engines, I guess Tru-Fuel and VP racing fuel pre-mixed fuels are really out to kill your engines. Most of them have a 94 Octane rating and come highly recommended for 2 stroke engines. Most of the major small engine manufacturers also contract Tru fuel and VP racing to make their brands of pre-mixed ready to use fuels with 92 or higher octane. Not designed to run on high octane huh?

For proof, here are some links. The octane rating is clearly shown towards the bottom of the can.

https://vpracingfuels.com/product/2-cycle-501/

https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Fuels-Oils-and-Lubricants/7450001

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/motomix/
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Please advise of any two cycle manufacturer that recommends high octane fuel.


Both my Hitachi leaf blower (Tanaka engine) AND Echo SRM-266 weed eater require 89 octane or above. They both advise AGAINST using 87 octane.
 
I never buy 2-stroke oil from Walmart/Supertech as they are only certified API-TC. Both my 2-stroke engines suggest ISO-l-EGD or Jaso FD oils. The walmart bottles carry neither. Many semi-syns carry both, no idea why the disparity.

I've been using Amsoil interceptor which is only API-TC, but I switch off and on with a semi-syn that carries the aforementioned ISO and Jaso certs. The synthetic Amsoil definitely smokes and smells less. But I don't mind the smoke and smell of the semi-syn oil, it reminds me of driving snowmobiles in the winter when I was growing up in northern Vermont.

I run both at approx. 40:1 or as close as I can get to that with my crude measuring, x number of kitchen tablespoon(s) per qt. of gasoline (exact number eludes me atm.) I don't use enough to make gallons at at time.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: boraticus

It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of most two cycle engines not designed to run on high octane fuel. Some engine manuals actually warn against using high octane fuel.


Where did you read that nonsense?


Here's an interesting link discussing octane:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1628849/fuel-grade-for-small-2-stroke-engines


You are mixing LL100 with TT93 gasoline....2strokes love high octane fuel because they revv faster!

Apparently LL100 tends to burn a bit slower due to its composition...and that can cause troubles...I am not familiar with an AVGAS...but I can recall similar tread on www.arboristsite.com
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I've been running synthetic 2 stroke oil ever since my local WM added their house brand to their shelves. It very well could be the placebo effect, but the engines seem to smoke much less? Engine performance seems to be about the same. I try to strictly run high octane fuel unless I'm in a pinch.

Anyone else notice this? What other benefits exist with synthetic 2 stroke oils?

The benefit of synthetic 2-stroke oil is that you can use less of it and still get enough lubrication. Less oil, less smoke.

Many people don't know what their mix is, they just know they put one little bottle in vs. 1 gallon of gasoline.

High octane buys you nothing, unless it also happens to be Ethanol free, or you have an old Stihl Super (high compression) or other minimum squish, gasket delete, etc., high compression engine.
 
The issue with two strokes is that once detonation starts, piston seizure is not far behind. The two stroke engine may not need higher octane. Right up until it does.....

The main advantage of a quality two stroke synthetic is to prevent ring sticking, the resulting blowby and premature loss of compression.


Probably detonation:
seizure_1.jpg


Absolutely detonation:
burnt_piston.jpg


Deto: Notice that not only did the crown fail, but the skirts are damaged, especially at the top, from excessive expansion due to, you guessed it, detonation.

piston3b.gif


Those that say two stroke engines don't need high octane are incorrect. The best thing one can do for two stroke reliability is to use excessive octane coupled with sufficient oil.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
The benefit of synthetic 2-stroke oil is that you can use less of it and still get enough lubrication. Less oil, less smoke.
Many people don't know what their mix is, they just know they put one little bottle in vs. 1 gallon of gasoline.

High octane buys you nothing, unless it also happens to be Ethanol free, or you have an old Stihl Super (high compression) or other minimum squish, gasket delete, etc., high compression engine.


How can one be sure of the synthetic = less oil theory you present? Even with syn oil, I'd err on the side of caution. Same for octane.
 
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