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Demonstrating problems for repair shops? #4564584
11/05/17 08:58 AM
11/05/17 08:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
How come shops don't let you demonstrate a problem? They just want you to drop it off just so they can charge you a $75 diagnostic fee to not find anything wrong.


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564587
11/05/17 09:02 AM
11/05/17 09:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
One time I bought a mower and spent $8000.00 on it and I had a couple of simple questions, then it turns out that they messed around with the mower for an hour and wanted to charge me $50.00 When it was under warranty. All I wanted to know was whether or not I was pulling the choke lever out enough and is this red wire supposed to be hooked up? Is that why the battery keeps dying?


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564598
11/05/17 09:11 AM
11/05/17 09:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
Dumc87 Offline
Dumc87  Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How come shops don't let you demonstrate a problem? They just want you to drop it off just so they can charge you a $75 diagnostic fee to not find anything wrong.


I think it stems from so many Professional DIY'ers adamantly "knowing" a problem and having a mechanic correct the problem the Pro-DIY'er knows; which ended up not being the problem from the get go. Now the mechanic has to charge for the "fix" and still has to go about diagnosing and correcting the real problem. Now the Pro-DIY customer is upset at being wrong and having to pay twice.

Some of us are humble enough to bring a car to a mechanic and say "I think it's X because Y is causing Z" and trust the mechanic to take that into consideration while performing a more thorough diagnosis.

The reason I chime in here is I just went through this with a buddy of mine concerning my Jeep. Jeep was losing coolant very quickly. I was for sure I had incorrectly installed a timing cover gasket wrong, even though I went through the proper steps per the FSM. Take it to my buddy, who's worked at several shops over the years but is currently transitioning to another field, and we start the tear down but he wanted to test something real quick. Sure enough, his process exposed the real culprit: one of the intake gaskets had split, causing coolant to spew out onto the timing cover. Was a neat situation because he could see why I thought what I thought, while he demonstrated he knows a thing or two, and we were both able to work together and fix the real issue and now I have a proper running Jeep.

Although I am sure some shops use that as an excuse to make a couple extra bucks.

Last edited by Dumc87; 11/05/17 09:17 AM.

'90 Z32 - PP HM 10w30
'98 ZJ - PYB HM 10w40
'02 G20 - QS UD 5w30
'09 Matrix - QS UD 0w20
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564602
11/05/17 09:16 AM
11/05/17 09:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
They can fix it their way I just want to be able to demonstrate the problem.


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564604
11/05/17 09:18 AM
11/05/17 09:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
Dumc87 Offline
Dumc87  Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
They can fix it their way I just want to be able to demonstrate the problem.


Maybe I am misunderstanding, what do you mean demonstrate? Like did you take the mower to a shop, show them the issue, and were just completely ignored?


'90 Z32 - PP HM 10w30
'98 ZJ - PYB HM 10w40
'02 G20 - QS UD 5w30
'09 Matrix - QS UD 0w20
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564616
11/05/17 09:27 AM
11/05/17 09:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How come shops don't let you demonstrate a problem? They just want you to drop it off just so they can charge you a $75 diagnostic fee to not find anything wrong.
This sounds exactly like my '02 Ram & its dying VP44 injection pump (HO Cummins, under warranty)-FOUR Dodge dealerships later, somebody decided to just go ahead & replace it (after I ran it 50 miles pulling a trailer with the lift/transfer pump disconnected to MAKE it throw a pump code!)... whistle


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564617
11/05/17 09:28 AM
11/05/17 09:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,018
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,018
USA
Because car problems have a built-in automatic stealth mode shop detection system. Anytime your car is at a garage, it stops doing whatever was wrong with it, so they can never find the issue! LOL

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564619
11/05/17 09:28 AM
11/05/17 09:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,977
Houston, Texas
Pretty much. I think in that particular situation their wasn't even a need to take the mower off the trailer.

Last edited by motor_oil_madman; 11/05/17 09:30 AM.

2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564627
11/05/17 09:35 AM
11/05/17 09:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,281
New England
My dad gave me a '76 Nova that had a "heavy duty" suspension that was actually quite fragile...he warned me that there was a bolt that tended to shear and leave one of the rear wheels sort of floating around, think he said it connected the axle to the leaf springs somehow??
Sure enough, I had the car in Dallas for about six months and suddenly the car seemed to want to pull a quick J turn when I went to make a left. I stopped as soon as I could and could see the right rear wheel was not sitting in the proper position in its wheel well.
I took it to a Chief Auto Parts attached to a 7-11 because it was right across the street from where I lived, and I even knew at the time it was sort of a dumb idea but I could take it there on a Saturday and ride my bike while they were working instead of missing work. I came back from my ride and the shop's chief gave me some bizarro explanation for my steering problem even though I had told him exactly what my dad had told me.
"Well, I think the problem is that the right rear wheel is moving around because the bolt I told you about is broken."
"No, that's not possible, the wheel can't be moving!"
Luckily, the car was on the lift right next to us and this was before customers were banned from shop floors.
I walked over to the Nova, grabbed the right rear wheel, and slammed it back and forth in the well!
The chief and his mechanic watched me with their mouths hanging wide open...
Their repair only worked for about a month, so I called Chief and they told me to bring it back in after the RIGHT bolt for the car came in! They had just found something laying around that they thought was close enough and jammed it in there.
They put the "right" bolt in and I never went back to Chief!

Last edited by Virtus_Probi; 11/05/17 09:36 AM.

2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564693
11/05/17 10:44 AM
11/05/17 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
raytseng Offline
raytseng  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
part of it is the extra work to listen and deal with you.

the advisor in the front has to write up all you said in your weird impercise description and try to get it down. especially if you're prone to speak in jargon.


sometimes if you write down what you want to say, or have pictues and print it out on paper, he can just slip your paper into the sleeve (or with your keys) and then theyve got it.

if you can able to separate what you observe is happening from your suggestions on how to fix it, even better.

Last edited by raytseng; 11/05/17 10:46 AM.
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564702
11/05/17 10:53 AM
11/05/17 10:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,541
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,541
Central Maryland
Not finding a problem means they don't want this type of business. Hard to diagnose stuff is more likely to generate large diagnostic bills, come-backs for misdiagnosed issues, and unhappy customers. Warranty work either pays nothing or a small fraction of the shop rate, so best avoided when the techs can be doing more profitable bread-n-butter work.

Service writers are a whole 'nother ball of wax. Some come from with a parts desk background, some are ex-mechanics, some know next to nothing about cars. None of them want to hear theories or spend time explaining how systems work. They just want to know symptoms and then let the Tech take it from there. Everything else is a waste of time, they could be pumping through more compliant, paying customers.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564730
11/05/17 11:30 AM
11/05/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 290
Michigan
researcher Offline
researcher  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 290
Michigan
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How come shops don't let you demonstrate a problem? They just want you to drop it off just so they can charge you a $75 diagnostic fee to not find anything wrong.


I know there are some dumb customers out there, of course. But there are also an equal number of know-it-all technicians who think they know everything, but know nothing. If a place won't let me take the time to demonstrate (aka, show them in person) the problem and let them see exactly the conditions it occurs.. Then they don't get any of my $$$ because a place like that has a closed-mind. They can't possibly know everything, they're not God.

Plus, maybe, just maybe, they'll learn something new from a customer. Imagine that.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564748
11/05/17 11:49 AM
11/05/17 11:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,838
CA
spackard Offline
spackard  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,838
CA
+1 on raytseng and hangfire's comments.

My shop's asked me to demonstrate problems before, mainly because I bring it in before something's fully broken, or is intermittent. Sometimes the hardest thing to do as a customer is figure out a repeatable pattern for an intermittent.

Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4564760
11/05/17 12:06 PM
11/05/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,280
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,280
WI
If a shop doesn't listen to what you have to say, they're not worth dealing with.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: Demonstrating problems for repair shops? [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4564770
11/05/17 12:16 PM
11/05/17 12:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
raytseng Offline
raytseng  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
If a shop doesn't listen to what you have to say, they're not worth dealing with.


this is true, yet at the same time the posters go back to walmart or jiffylube because its cheap and complain about it.

if you are wanting good service you should expect to pay a fair price for it and not expect it to be free

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