Recent Topics
Help with parasitic draw?
by buck91. 09/24/18 05:57 PM
Costco Car Buying Program
by dkryan. 09/24/18 05:39 PM
Glass Scrub?
by buck91. 09/24/18 05:03 PM
Loosing coolant from somewhere
by NICAT. 09/24/18 03:47 PM
2010 or so Ford Fusion Sport thoughts?
by ZZman. 09/24/18 03:35 PM
My boss killed his jeep.
by Chris142. 09/24/18 02:40 PM
Moly question about walmart oils
by jayjr1105. 09/24/18 02:33 PM
Questions About 9011 Bulbs
by knerml. 09/24/18 02:23 PM
Lubricant Additives - A Practical Guide
by wemay. 09/24/18 01:39 PM
Fram Ultra--Any Real Competition?
by IndyFan. 09/24/18 12:59 PM
Used generator price.
by Eddie. 09/24/18 11:55 AM
More energy concerns about Bitcoin
by OVERKILL. 09/24/18 10:01 AM
Soot loading from DI engines - Size of particles
by StevieC. 09/24/18 09:58 AM
Newest Members
albert001, LG_Electronics, TCam, OzFrog, Kursk
66062 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
95 registered members (aquariuscsm, 55hambone, Armkb, Ag76, 77GrandPrix, anndel, 11 invisible), 1,877 guests, and 33 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,955
Posts4,853,176
Members66,062
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion #4564282
11/04/17 08:10 PM
11/04/17 08:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
This article can also be found here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/

Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion from One Perspective
By MolaKule (typos and errors are mine alone)


Section I: Group I through 3 base oils.

In order to set the stage for this discussion, let us first review the basic API Groups of base oils and discuss basic refining and crude oil processing.

Solvent Refining

[Definition of Wax: Wax is a large hydrocarbon molecule that prevents oil from
flowing at colder temperatures; paraffin, a flammable, whitish, translucent, waxy solid consisting of a mixture of saturated hydrocarbons, obtained by distillation from petroleum or shale and used in candles, cosmetics, polishes, and sealing and waterproofing compounds; In chemistry, paraffin is used synonymously with alkane, indicating hydrocarbons with the general formula CnH2n+2].

[Definition of Catalyst: A substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without being consumed in the process].

In the past, two-thirds of the base oil in North America was manufactured using solvent refining. Solvent refined base oils are commonly called Group I base oils which are characterized as those having less than 90% saturates (>10% aromatics) and more than 300 ppm sulfur.

The solvents and hardware used to manufacture solvent-refined base oils have
changed over time, but the basic strategy has not changed since 1930. The two main
processing steps are:
1. Remove aromatics by solvent extraction.
2. Remove wax by chilling and precipitation in the presence of a different solvent.

Aromatics are removed by solvent extraction to improve the lubricating quality
of the oil. Aromatics make good solvents but they make poor quality base oils because
they are among the most reactive components in the natural lube boiling range.

Oxidation of aromatics can start a chain reaction that can dramatically shorten the useful
life of a base oil.

The viscosity of aromatic components in a base oil also responds relatively
poorly to changes in temperature. Lubricants are often designed to provide a viscosity
that is low enough for good cold weather starting and high enough to provide adequate
film thickness and lubricity in hot, high-severity service. Therefore, when hot and cold
performance is required, a small response to changes in temperature is desired.

The lubricants industry expresses this response as the viscosity index (V.I.). A higher V.I. indicates a smaller, more favorable response to temperature. Correspondingly, many
turbine manufacturers have a minimum V.I. specification for their turbine oils. Base oil
selection is key for meeting this specification because turbine oil additives do not
normally contribute positively to the V.I. in turbine oil formulations.

Aromatics are removed by feeding the raw lube distillate (vacuum gas oil) into a
solvent extractor where it is contacted countercurrently with a solvent. Popular choices
of solvent are furfural, n-methyl pyrrolidone (NMP), and DUO-SOL™. Phenol was
another popular solvent but it is rarely used today due to environmental concerns.
Solvent extraction typically removes 50-80% of the impurities (aromatics, polars, sulfur
and nitrogen containing species).

The resulting product of solvent extraction is usually referred to as a raffinate. The second step is solvent dewaxing. Wax is removed from the oil to keep it from freezing. Wax is removed by first diluting the raffinate with a solvent to lower its viscosity to improve low-temperature filterability.

Popular dewaxing solvents are methyl-ethyl ketone (MEK)/toluene, MEK/methyl-isobutyl ketone, or (rarely) propane. The diluted oil is then chilled to -10 to -20_C. Wax crystals form, precipitate, and are removed by filtration.


Hydrotreating (Predominately Group I)

Hydrotreating was developed in the 1950s and first used in base oil
manufacturing in the 1960s by Amoco and others. It was used as an additional
“cleanup” step added to the end of a conventional solvent refining process.

Hydrotreating is a process for adding hydrogen to the base oil at elevated temperatures
in the presence of catalyst to stabilize the most reactive components in the base oil,
improve color, and increase the useful life of the base oil. This process removed some
of the nitrogen and sulfur containing molecules but was not severe enough to remove a
significant amount of aromatic molecules. Hydrotreating was a small improvement in
base oil technology that would become more important later.

Hydrocracking (Predominately Group II)

Hydrocracking is a more severe form of hydroprocessing. It is done by adding
hydrogen to the base oil feed at even higher temperatures and pressures than simple
hydrotreating. Feed molecules are reshaped and often cracked into smaller molecules.
A great majority of the sulfur, nitrogen, and aromatics are removed. Molecular
reshaping of the remaining saturated species occurs as naphthenic rings are opened and
paraffin isomers are redistributed, driven by thermodynamics with reaction rates
facilitated by catalysts. Clean fuels are byproducts of this process.

Chevron commercialized this technology for fuels production in the late 1950’s. In 1969 the first hydrocracker for Base Oil Manufacturing was commercialized in Idemitsu Kosan Company’s Chiba Refinery using technology licensed by Gulf. This was followed by Sun Oil Company’s Yabucoa Refinery in Puerto Rico in 1971, also using Gulf technology.

Group II base oils are differentiated from Group I base oils because they contain significantly lower levels of impurities (<10% aromatics, <300 ppm S). They also look different. Group II oils are so pure that they have almost no color at all. From a performance standpoint, improved purity means that the base oil and the additives in the finished product can last much longer. More specifically, the oil is more inert and forms less oxidation byproducts that increase base oil viscosity and react with additives.


Catalytic Dewaxing and Wax Hydroisomerization Group III

[Definition: ISODEWAXING™: A patented process developed by Chevron which includes the catalytic hydroprocessing steps of Hydrocracking, Hydroisomerization, and Hydrotreating to produce Group III oils].

The first catalytic dewaxing and wax hydroisomerization technologies were
commercialized in the 1970s. Shell used wax hydroisomerization technology coupled
with solvent dewaxing to manufacture extra high V.I. base oils in Europe. Exxon and
others built similar plants in the 1990s. In the U.S., Mobil used catalytic dewaxing in
place of solvent dewaxing, but still coupled it with solvent extraction to manufacture
conventional oils.

Catalytic dewaxing was a desirable alternative to solvent dewaxing especially for conventional neutral oils, because it removed n-paraffins and waxy side chains from other molecules by catalytically cracking them into smaller molecules. This process lowered the pour point of the base oil so that it flowed at low temperatures, like solvent dewaxed oils. Hydroisomerization also saturated the majority of remaining aromatics and removed the majority of remaining sulfur and nitrogen species.

Chevron was the first to combine catalytic dewaxing with hydrocracking and
hydrofinishing in their Richmond, California base oil plant in 1984. This
was the first commercial demonstration of an all-hydroprocessing route for lube base oil
manufacturing.

In 1993, the first modern wax hydroisomerization process was commercialized
by Chevron. This was an improvement over earlier catalytic dewaxing because the
pour point of the base oil was lowered by isomerizing (reshaping) the n-paraffins and other molecules with waxy side chains into very desirable branched compounds with
superior lubricating qualities rather than cracking them away. Hydroisomerization was
also an improvement over earlier wax hydroisomerization technology, because it
eliminated the subsequent solvent dewaxing step, which was a requirement for earlier
generation wax isomerization technologies to achieve adequate yield at standard pour
points. Modern wax hydroisomerization makes products with exceptional purity and
stability due to extremely high degree of saturation.
They are very distinctive because, unlike other base oils, they typically have no color.

By combining three catalytic hydroprocessing steps (Hydrocracking,
Hydroisomerization, Hydrotreating), molecules with poor lubricating qualities are
reshaped into higher quality base oil molecules. Pour point, V.I., and oxidation stability are controlled independently.

All three steps convert undesirable molecules into desirable ones, rather than have one, two, or all three steps rely on subtraction.

Among the many benefits of this combination of processes is greater crude oil flexibility; that is, less reliance on a narrow range of crude oils from which to make high-quality base oils. In addition, the base oil performance is exceptionally favorable and substantially independent of crude source, unlike solvent-refined base oil.

So base oils with a “conventional” V.I. (80-119) are Group II. Base oils with an “unconventional” V.I. (120+) are Group III. Group III oils have also been called unconventional base oils (UCBOs) or very high V.I. (VHVI) base oils.

Modern Group III oils have greatly improved oxidation stability and low temperature performance. Consequently, many group I or II plants are now being upgraded to enable them to make the modern hydroisomerized Group III oils.

Modern Group III oils today can be designed and manufactured so that their performance closely matches PAOs in most commercially significant finished lube applications.
.
From a processing standpoint, modern Group III base oils are manufactured by
essentially the same processing route as modern Group II base oils. Higher V.I. is
achieved by increasing the temperature or time in the hydrocracker. This is sometimes
collectively referred to as the “severity.” Alternatively, the product V.I. could be
increased simply by increasing the feed V.I., which is typically done by selecting the
appropriate crude.

Summary of Section I: So up to this point, we see that Group I to III base oils (excepting GTL, see below) result from the succession of the steps defined by the severity of the processing and the catalyzation of crude oil, or the “reshaping of molecules via catalytic action.”


Gas-to-Liquid (GTL) base oils:

The API officially considers GTL base oils as Group III or unofficially it has been called, “Group III+.” It is this author’s view that the GTL process results in a “synthesized” oil and should be given a separate API classification as they do PAO, or moved to the Group V classification. A separate, future debate can address this issue and will not be further discussed here in this white paper.


Section II: Synthetic Base Oils group IV and V


[Definition: Chemical Synthesis; the process of constructing complex chemical compounds from selected, simpler ones; it is applied to all types of chemical compounds, but most syntheses are of organic molecules; chemical synthesis involves the combination of two or more selected atoms (or molecules) to make a finished and predictable product].

Since many chemical substances do not occur naturally, or in enough quantity or purity for commercialization, we resort to synthesis to make new products.

For example aspirin is made by synthesis using an esterification reaction. Salicylic acid is treated with acetic anhydride, an acid derivative, causing a chemical reaction that turns salicylic acid's hydroxyl group into an ester group (R-OH &#8594; R-OCOCH3). This process yields aspirin and acetic acid, which is considered a byproduct of this reaction. Small amounts of a specific acid are always used as a catalyst. (See D. R. Palleros, Experimental Organic Chemistry. New York: John Wiley & Sons. (2000) ISBN 0-471-28250-2).

During a chemical synthesis, we refer to the starting materials as the reactants. Think of the reactants as your basic building blocks; they are your atoms (or molecules) that are absolutely required to complete any chemical synthesis reaction. The type of product made varies depending on the reactants.

When the atoms (or molecules) combine, they will form a product. What drives this ability to make a product, using reactants, is a chemical reaction. a process that is driving the formation of a product using different starting materials, or reactants. With chemical syntheses, these processes generally only go in one direction.

A synthetic chemical is then made from the ground up in the laboratory or chemical processing plant by the process of synthesis, as differentiated by refinement or extraction.
&#8195;
A synthetic base oil is produced from well-defined and carefully chosen chemical compounds and by specific chemical reactions. A molecularly engineered base stock is optimized for viscosity index, pour point, volatility, oxidative stability, flash point, shear stability, and other desirable properties. Classified as API Group IV and Group V base oils.

The use of the word “synthetic” in the lubricants industry has historically been
synonymous with polymerized base oils such as poly-alpha olefins (PAOs), Esters, and other synthesized base oils, such as alkylated naphthalenes (AN), which are made from selected starting atoms or molecules.

Some authors have stated that the term “synthetic” was given a special meaning by the lubricants industry because these types of oils were the only components available for high-performance lubricants at that time. This is purely an attempt to obfuscate the issue.
PAO and Ester base oils were synthesized base oils, so what a better phrase to use than, “Synthetic Lubricant?” However, the term “synthetic” never meant anything different in the chemical industry and the lab.

Other authors and marketing folks have attempted to further obfuscate the issue by using the word, “Performance,” in advertising media, as if ‘performance” somehow equaled “synthetic.” While Group III base oils approach the performance of Group IV base oils, “performance” is not a chemistry term, but rather an ambiguous term used by marketing. One has to ask the begging question: "Compared to what?"

In an attempt to further clarify the issue, finished engine oils (base oils plus additives) are NOT to be placed into any base group, as has been attempted by our beloved and uneducated marketing folks.

The first commercially viable process for making PAO was pioneered by Gulf Oil in 1951 using an AlCl3 catalyst. Mobil patented an improved process using a BF3/AlCl3 catalyst in the 1960s. PAO base oils have the API classification of Group IV.

(See also, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1252107/Synlube_Overview#Post1252107, for a review of Synthetic Lubricants).

[Definition: Polymerization; the process of forming a repeating chain molecule].
[Definition: Monomer; A monomer is a molecule that forms the basic unit for polymers; Monomers may bind to other monomers to. Monomers may be either natural or synthetic in origin and form a repeating chain molecule via a process called polymerization].

[Definition: Oligomers; Oligomers are polymers consisting of a small number (typically under one hundred) of monomer subunits].

[Definition: Oligimerization; a chemical process that converts monomers to macromolecular complexes through a finite degree of polymerization].

[Definition: Olefin; an alkene, or unsaturated hydrocarbon with the general formula CnHn. The simplest olefin is ethylene (ethane) gas, or C2H2].

PAO’s are the workhorses of synthetic and Blend lubricating oils, comprising greater than 45% of the synthetic base oil market.

For PAO synthesis, the starting olefin (see above definition) is 1-Decene, C10H20. 1-Decene is produced by the oligomerization of the simpler ethylene gas molecule. (Again, an oligomer is a molecular complex that consists of a few monomer {mono-molecular) units. For example, Dimers, Trimers, and Tetramers are monomers). It is one of the many linear alpha-olefins (LAOs) used in the growth process to finally yield C4 to C70 LAOs.

The 1-Decene becomes a PAO liquid by polymerization (the linking together of monomers) using the Friedel-Crafts process. This process uses a catalyst, specific temperature conditions, and specific pressures to give rise to the higher olefin oligomers, such as the C20 through C70 olefins. (A catalyst is a substance that enhances chemical reactions with very catalyst little being consumed in the process). The degree of polymerization is dependent upon the type of catalyst used. For example, a Boron Triflouride (BF3) catalyst gives low viscosity base stocks from about 2.4 to 8.0 cSt. An Aluminum Trichloride (AlCl3) catalyst will produce higher viscosity PAOs from 10 cSt on up.

The final process in the PAO synthesis is to introduce hydrogen at specific temperatures and pressures to create a fully saturated hydrocarbon. This hydrogenation process enhances the oxidation stability of the PAO.

So the PAO development process is essentially: ethylene gas >> 1-Decene >> Catalyzation of gas to a liquid polymer >> Hydrogenation of polymer >> Finished PAO.


Esters are synthesized by the chemical reaction of selected alcohols and acids.

Esters occur naturally in many plant and animal materials. However, virgin plant and animal oils also contain other products that tend to increase oxidation and degradation, and therefore are not suitable for lubricants in their virgin states.

Many plant and animal oils are processed such that after pressing, the acids are separated from the other products. The resulting acids are then reacted with selected alcohols to produce an ester with characteristics and qualities far superior to plant and animal oils.

Ester starting materials are also made from chemicals derived from petroleum refining processes.

(See also, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/729310/Esters,_General#Post729310

and,

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...nth#Post1252272 for a review of Esters in synthetic lubricants).

For example, a very useful ester in additive chemistry is the ZDDP molecule, whose function is as an Anti-Wear (AW) and Oxidation Inhibitor (OI). Members of the zinc dialkyldithiophosphate category are substances prepared by reacting phosphorous pentasulfide (P2S5) with one or more primary or secondary C3-C10 branched or linear alcohols to form the phosphorodithioic acid ester. The only exception is the alkaryl dithiophosphate where the alcohol moiety is tetrapropenylphenol. The dithiophosphoric acid ester is further diluted with 10-15 wt-% highly refined lubricating base oil (typical CAS #s 64742-54-7 and 64741-88-4) before it is neutralized with zinc oxide. The oil acts as a solvent in the neutralization reaction, manages the viscosity of the final product and improves consistency. The zinc complex that is formed upon neutralization is not a salt in the traditional sense, since the Zn-S bond is more coordinate covalent in character than ionic. (See, American Chemistry Council Publication 210-144870. There are about 15 versions of ZDDP chemistry. In fact, many other additive chemistries are in ester or esterified forms.

Synthetic Group V base oils include esters (dibasic and polyol), alkylated benzenes (ABs), alkylated napthalenes (ANs), Polyisobutylenes (PIBs), phosphate esters, silicones, PAG’s (especially oil soluble PEGs or OSPs), and other similar synthesized lubricants not including Group IV.

One of the first companies to successfully market a majority ester-based finished oil was the Amsoil Corporation. (Remember, I said, “successfully”). This was a di-ester based finished oil that was formulated and packaged by the Hatco Corporation, a pioneer in the production of a wide range of various ester base oils.

As the price of esters increased, and reached a certain Return-on-Investment (ROI) point, Amsoil and other companies started formulating finished products containing PAO’s with esters and other Group V base oils such as AN’s.

Summary of Section II: While Group III base oils have positive characteristics that approach Group IV and V oils, Groups IV and V are truly synthesized oils using selected starting molecules (the monomer(s)) up to the finished product, with specific and predictable outcomes.

Section III: Discussion, Opinions, and Summary

[Definition: Finished lubricant; a lubricant in which a series of selected base oils have been blended with a performance improvement additive package such that the final product shows definitive improvements over the base oils alone].

Hopefully, the above sections have provided the reader with enough background information so that he or she can now make an informed decision as to what is a synthetic oil and what is not.

However, it is important to note a number of facts about modern finished lubricants.
1) todays finished lubricants are composed of various viscosities of base oils and of various Groups of base oils to exhibit targeted characteristics in specific environments and applications,
2) performance improvement additive packages are different from one specific environment and application to another,
3) it is the complete, overall package and not the specific base oil or oils, that constitute the final quality and performance of that lubricant.


Marketing propaganda and media hype will always attempt to persuade you that a certain product has an advantage over another. This is a simply a fact in terms of competition among manufactures.

Neither the NAD/BBB decision nor the PQIA stamp will solve this chaos. PQIA is going in the right direction but more needs to be done.

However, unless we come to grips with definitive statements and guidelines as to what is a synthetic lubricant and what is not, confusion will reign. The API, SAE, the S.T.L.E. the ILMA and others are stakeholders in the goal of clarification, and must meet this devil head on.



REFERENCES:

Kramer, D. C., Lok, B. K., Krug, R. R., “The Evolution of Base Oil
Technology,”
Turbine Lubrication in the 21st Century, ASTM STP #1407, W. R.
Herguth and T. M. Warne, Eds., American Society for Testing and Materials, West
Conshohocken, PA, 2001.

D. R. Palleros, Experimental Organic Chemistry. New York: John Wiley & Sons. (2000) ISBN 0-471-28250-2).

Thomas Engel and Philip Reid, Physical Chemistry, Pearson, (2006).

American Chemistry Council, Various Publications

Last edited by wwillson; 11/14/17 09:14 PM. Reason: added link to article on home page
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564302
11/04/17 08:51 PM
11/04/17 08:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,860
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,860
Kalifornia Kollective
Wonderful, hope your fingers are not tired laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564313
11/04/17 09:06 PM
11/04/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,266
Naperville, IL
wwillson Offline

Administrator
wwillson  Offline

Administrator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,266
Naperville, IL
Thank you for publishing on BITOG, you continue to contribute so much to our forum!

Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564329
11/04/17 09:22 PM
11/04/17 09:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 570
West Ma.
rollinpete Offline
rollinpete  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 570
West Ma.
That was quiet the discussion better next time do it over some burgers on the grill...
Wow lots's of cool info...

Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: rollinpete] #4564358
11/04/17 09:50 PM
11/04/17 09:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: rollinpete
That was quiet the discussion better next time do it over some burgers on the grill...
Wow lots's of cool info...



You're on! thumbsup


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564414
11/04/17 11:56 PM
11/04/17 11:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 461
Maryland USA
rubberchicken Offline
rubberchicken  Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 461
Maryland USA
Interesting read, thanks ! Any background on when Amsoil changed its products from esters to PAO ? I seem to recall using something called " Golden Spectro" oil in 1980's motorcycles, and its primary claim was that it was ester based.

Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564424
11/05/17 12:25 AM
11/05/17 12:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
SO which is better


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: rubberchicken] #4564434
11/05/17 01:18 AM
11/05/17 01:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: rubberchicken
Interesting read, thanks ! Any background on when Amsoil changed its products from esters to PAO ?


I am not an Amsoil Historian so that would be a good question for Pablo.

Are there any technical questions?


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564439
11/05/17 02:13 AM
11/05/17 02:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,910
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,910
'Stralia
Thanks heaps Molakule.

Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564463
11/05/17 04:49 AM
11/05/17 04:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,625
Down Under
Thank You !!!


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564508
11/05/17 07:11 AM
11/05/17 07:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,626
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,626
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion from One Perspective
By MolaKule (typos and errors are mine alone)

Hopefully, the above sections have provided the reader with enough background information so that he or she can now make an informed decision as to what is a synthetic oil and what is not.




Nice summary. I decided when I first heard of them that GTL lubricants were synthetic, but you can't fight city hall.

Re typos, only noticed a few. Here they are, in case you want to publish somewhere else.

"A synthetic chemical is then made from the ground up in the laboratory or chemical processing plant by the process of synthesis, as differentiated by refinement or extraction"

I'd suggest

"A synthetic chemical is then made from the ground up in the laboratory or chemical processing plant by the process of synthesis, as differentiated from refinement or extraction"

"Monomers may bind to other monomers to."

I'd suggest either

"Monomers may bind to other monomers too. "

or more likely its a fragment, and was intended to read

"Monomers may bind to other monomers to form a repeating chain molecule via a process called polymerization." in which case the surrounding sentences need some adjustment.


"For example, Dimers, Trimers, and Tetramers are monomers)"

I'd suggest

For example, Dimers, Trimers, and Tetramers are oligomers.

(A catalyst is a substance that enhances chemical reactions with very catalyst little being consumed in the process).

I'd suggest

(A catalyst is a substance that enhances chemical reactions with very little catalyst being consumed in the process).

Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564528
11/05/17 07:48 AM
11/05/17 07:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,365
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,365
PA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Are there any technical questions?

This isn't about definitions really, so let me know if you'd prefer to answer this in a different thread.

I've read that PAO-based oils have sometimes been found to leave more deposits on intake valves and combustion chambers than Group II and/or Group III oils, especially when used:

http://docplayer.net/38978662-Considerat...ion-engine.html
http://papers.sae.org/2011-01-2110/

Any comments on this?


2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564608
11/05/17 09:20 AM
11/05/17 09:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
Dumc87 Offline
Dumc87  Offline
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Florida
My un-diagnosed ADD won't let me properly read this...

But I am gonna anyway! Seems like real good stuff here


'90 Z32 - PP HM 10w30
'98 ZJ - PYB HM 10w40
'02 G20 - QS UD 5w30
'09 Matrix - QS UD 0w20
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: MolaKule] #4564674
11/05/17 10:22 AM
11/05/17 10:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
Thanks for the detailed summary of how the various base oils are made along with their historical development.
You've shown why Grp IIIs really shouldn't be called synthetics, something most of us knew but didn't really acknowledge.
Maybe Grp IIIs should be labeled as Grp IIIs rather than as synthetics?
The problem would be a marketing one, though. Having spent the last twenty years convincing buyers that Grp III products were synthetic, it would be a bit of an uphill fight to have blenders admit that they were fibbing all along.
Also, many finished oils contain significant Grp IV content along with some Grp III.
Should these oils be labeled as synthetics, blends or what?
Can you see any potential for a more modern performance-based standard for finished oils in which any labeling related to basestocks would cease and only actual performance would matter?


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion [Re: Ducked] #4564818
11/05/17 12:55 PM
11/05/17 12:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,242
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Synthetic Base Oils and Discussion from One Perspective
By MolaKule (typos and errors are mine alone)

Hopefully, the above sections have provided the reader with enough background information so that he or she can now make an informed decision as to what is a synthetic oil and what is not.




Nice summary. I decided when I first heard of them that GTL lubricants were synthetic, but you can't fight city hall.

Re typos, only noticed a few. Here they are, in case you want to publish somewhere else.

"A synthetic chemical is then made from the ground up in the laboratory or chemical processing plant by the process of synthesis, as differentiated by refinement or extraction"

I'd suggest

"A synthetic chemical is then made from the ground up in the laboratory or chemical processing plant by the process of synthesis, as differentiated from refinement or extraction"

"Monomers may bind to other monomers to."

I'd suggest either

"Monomers may bind to other monomers too. "

or more likely its a fragment, and was intended to read

"Monomers may bind to other monomers to form a repeating chain molecule via a process called polymerization." in which case the surrounding sentences need some adjustment.


"For example, Dimers, Trimers, and Tetramers are monomers)"

I'd suggest

For example, Dimers, Trimers, and Tetramers are oligomers.

(A catalyst is a substance that enhances chemical reactions with very catalyst little being consumed in the process).

I'd suggest

(A catalyst is a substance that enhances chemical reactions with very little catalyst being consumed in the process).


Thanks Ms. Markum. cool [One of my English teachers]. smile

When swiping from a .docx file to pasting here all kinds of weird things happen.

It took me 10 minutes to clean things up after pasting. It would be nice if this site allowed direct uploads of certain file types such as pdf files.

This was written for BITOG alone in response to a thread in another forum.

Here, anyone can post an opposing view for debate purposes.


Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™