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#4562182 - 11/02/17 03:23 PM Simpler and Louder F1
DeepFriar Offline


Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 1367
Loc: Georgia
V (or flat)-12's and no "power units". Free the electrons! No, you can not have what I am smoking.

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#4562192 - 11/02/17 03:39 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4383
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
I have always hated the term, "Power Unit". It sounds politically correct. And I refuse to be politically correct about ENGINES. Which is what they are, and have always been. And what they always will be as long as they burn fuel in a cylinder(s).

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#4562298 - 11/02/17 05:46 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 10979
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
I say go back to the 3.0L limit and let each engine manufacturer choose between number and layout of cylinders. No RPM limit, no fuel flow limit. Allow mid race refueling.
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#4562372 - 11/02/17 06:57 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
wings&wheels Offline


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 579
Loc: New England, USA
Turbo's

While I wish I was old enough to be interested in F1 during the advent of ground effects, I really long for the mid 80's crazy output Turbo days; Lauda in '84, Prost after...
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#4562618 - 11/02/17 11:51 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
DeepFriar Offline


Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 1367
Loc: Georgia
We'll just have to see what Liberty and others mean when they make statements like "simpler and louder". wings&wheels: I bet most of us in the USA specifically were initially drawn to the sport via the BIG horsepower days in the 80's. I know I was. It was also back before many lost respect for the declining Indycar. I think before that they often together reinforced the interest in open wheel IMHO. Dumbing down hit the former USAC to save costs and then F1 did the same. In effect, like NASCAR, all of it became an entertainment biz rather than a sport. The business may have demanded that but it does't make it any less sad. My .02

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#4562703 - 11/03/17 05:50 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
I_4 Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Southeast MA
I despise the fact that they have to politically correct. Along with other "politically correct" things like - calling them PU's. Banning refueling during the race. While they fly 747's around the world. And the multiple motorhomes, etc. Some other things - like $250k front wings and topside aero. Strict engine rules. The ugly halo coming in 2018. Overweight porker cars. One tire supplier. The cartel of MB, Renault, Ferrari calling the shots or threats to leave.
Give them 100 gallons of fuel to run 200 miles with a fuel cell size of 40 gallons. Let them build any "PU" they want. lol !
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#4562716 - 11/03/17 06:14 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: I_4]
I_4 Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Southeast MA
Entertainment, that is what it has become. We all know that refueling in race will never come back. Nor will open "engine" rules. MB, Renault, will get what they want. The only question will be will the MGU-H stay or go. And how much will they open up the fuel flow limit. But - I would love to be wrong.
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#4562725 - 11/03/17 06:44 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: I_4]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4383
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: I_4
......The ugly halo coming in 2018......


I have no idea how bad those are going to look. But if they are ugly enough to make the rolling pink turds of Ocon and Perez look good, F1 just lost another fan.

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#4562749 - 11/03/17 07:23 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: billt460]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 2152
Loc: Indiana
Címon man, youíre really going to boycott F1 because they use a halo to protect the driverís head? Think of it as another aero device.

One good thing on the engine front, they HAVE TO keep some sort of reciprocating engine as they are boxed in by E-formula (or whatever they call it) on the full electric front. I love bcardinals engine formula. Would love to see 4 v 6 v 8 (or more). MotoGP can do it, why not F1?


Edited by Indydriver (11/03/17 07:27 AM)
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#4562770 - 11/03/17 08:05 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: DeepFriar]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 2152
Loc: Indiana
BTW, wait until you see the new IndyCar in action. Beautiful! They tested at IMS last week. Drivers love it and the (somewhat) de-aero look is pleasing all.


Edited by Indydriver (11/03/17 08:11 AM)
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#4562802 - 11/03/17 08:47 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: Indydriver]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4383
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Címon man, youíre really going to boycott F1 because they use a halo to protect the driverís head?


It's not just that. I've been watching since 1998, and it just seems to be going downhill. Way too much politics, "investigations", and controversy. I know that has always been a big part of F1, but it's worse now than ever. Without refueling and 2 tire manufacturers, it has just made it all the more boring. Pit stops were, and are a big part of racing. And F1 has removed a lot of the excitement by eliminating them with only one tire change required, and zero refueling. And it's really getting boring seeing just 2 teams able to win a championship over the last several years. (Red Bull and Mercedes). 9 Championships between 3 guys and 2 teams since 2010. (Vettel, Hamilton, and Rosberg). If that dominance continues it just takes away even more excitement. In Indy Car there is no where near that type of single team dominance. Both Ganassi and Penske can win any race at any time. As can others. It just doesn't put you to sleep like F1 seems to.

Indy racing is far more exciting overall. Especially now with the new cars that are coming, without all that ugly rear aero junk that ended up all over the track every time they touched, taking lengthy pit stops to replace. And they don't use "HALO'S". And I doubt the drivers are any more in danger without them. Their use in F1 is much like everything else, political and controversial. So next year they'll take the wobbly "TV antenna's" off the back fin. And instead add a "HALO". The result will be the same. Follow the leader for an hour and a half.

I'll tune in to the first couple of races to see what happens. My guess is that Mercedes will yet again dominate. With both Ferrari and Red Bull playing catch up. I just don't think I can sit through another 20 races of that. The difference will be this year we watched Honda engines suck. Next year it will be Renault falling apart. They've already got a head start.

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#4562810 - 11/03/17 09:01 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: billt460]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 2152
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Címon man, youíre really going to boycott F1 because they use a halo to protect the driverís head?

Indy racing is far more exciting overall.

Why?
1. Spec series will always be closer competition than constructors. Itís just the nature of the beast that when you have a dozen teams trying to interpret the rules to best advantage some will do better than others (this is usually directly related to the depth of the teamís pockets). Indy used to be a constructors series which was great in some ways-you got rear engines cars, turbines, 4WD etc., but you also got run-away races. From a strictly racing viewpoint, the Indy 500 has never been better than the past few years.
2. Oval racing is typically more exciting than road racing.
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#4563768 - 11/04/17 10:38 AM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: Indydriver]
DeepFriar Offline


Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 1367
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver

2. Oval racing is typically more exciting than road racing.


You know, I never thought I could agree with that, but I think you're right. Not more interesting necessarily (street circuits are interesting if not always "exciting). I recall Schumacher saying he wouldn't race Indy, "Too dangerous".

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#4564292 - 11/04/17 08:32 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: billt460]
Carmudgeon Offline


Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 533
Loc: Under the hood
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Címon man, youíre really going to boycott F1 because they use a halo to protect the driverís head?


It's not just that. I've been watching since 1998, and it just seems to be going downhill. Way too much politics, "investigations", and controversy. I know that has always been a big part of F1, but it's worse now than ever. Without refueling and 2 tire manufacturers, it has just made it all the more boring. Pit stops were, and are a big part of racing. And F1 has removed a lot of the excitement by eliminating them with only one tire change required, and zero refueling. And it's really getting boring seeing just 2 teams able to win a championship over the last several years. (Red Bull and Mercedes). 9 Championships between 3 guys and 2 teams since 2010. (Vettel, Hamilton, and Rosberg). If that dominance continues it just takes away even more excitement. In Indy Car there is no where near that type of single team dominance. Both Ganassi and Penske can win any race at any time. As can others. It just doesn't put you to sleep like F1 seems to.

Indy racing is far more exciting overall. Especially now with the new cars that are coming, without all that ugly rear aero junk that ended up all over the track every time they touched, taking lengthy pit stops to replace. And they don't use "HALO'S". And I doubt the drivers are any more in danger without them. Their use in F1 is much like everything else, political and controversial. So next year they'll take the wobbly "TV antenna's" off the back fin. And instead add a "HALO". The result will be the same. Follow the leader for an hour and a half.

I'll tune in to the first couple of races to see what happens. My guess is that Mercedes will yet again dominate. With both Ferrari and Red Bull playing catch up. I just don't think I can sit through another 20 races of that. The difference will be this year we watched Honda engines suck. Next year it will be Renault falling apart. They've already got a head start.


F1 is F1. Little "overtaking." Haves and have nots and team dominance. Team orders and other politics. Disagreement over the direction of the sport, and contentment with the current situation often inversely proportional to one's standing at the time.

It's been that way since I first watched many years ago, and it's the same old stuff, with new faces and some different teams.

The sport doesn't change; the viewers do. Some like it for what it is, and remain entertained. Some do not, or lose interest and move on to other things.

IndyCar has always been more varied and more competitive, even though it has its own dominant teams.

Even Bernie became scared of CART when it was at its peak, and backed by copious amounts of manufacturer and vice product sponsorships.

Then it had its own political struggle, and has been on a long road to recovery, made all the harder by a different world where racing is no longer considered daring or special, and the easy vice sponsor money is long gone.

But there is progress. 2018 looks to be a good year for both IndyCar and IMSA/sports car, which also did its best to destroy itself.

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#4572901 - 11/13/17 02:07 PM Re: Simpler and Louder F1 [Re: billt460]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: billt460
It's not just that. I've been watching since 1998, and it just seems to be going downhill. Way too much politics, "investigations", and controversy.

There have been moments of that, but nothing like a team or driver losing all results for the year, no race bans, none of that for a while. As for the strategy complaints, as I've mentioned before, watch a race on YouTube for 20+ years ago. It's all the same thing, with even some of the same commentary if you happen to find a race where Coulthard or Brundle were benched.
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