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Hunt for Red October #4561301
11/01/17 02:36 PM
11/01/17 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline OP
MolaKule  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,236
Iowegia - USA
Some Interesting fact about Red October.

Quote:

The so-called “caterpillar drive” worked with no moving
parts, allowing a nuclear missile-armed Soviet submarine to
approach the U.S. coast undetected. As the submarine captain
(played by Connery) said, “Once the world trembled at the
sound of our rockets … now they will tremble again—at the
sound of our silence."

MHD propulsion is not fictional: real-life prototypes include
the EMS-1, a 3.0-m submarine that achieved speeds of
0.4 m/s during tests in California in 1966,2 and the ST-500,
a 3.6-m boat that reached 0.6 m/s in Japan in 1979.3 The
world’s first and so far only full-sized MHD-propelled craft,
Yamato-1, carried 10 people at speeds of up to 15 km/h during
successful sea trials in Kobe, Japan, in 1992.

In Clancy’s novel, Red October’s propulsion system was not
magnetohydrodynamic but based on a more conventional
(but also unusually quiet) “pump-jet” system
employed in the
massive Typhoon-class Soviet submarines of the 1980s. Nevertheless,
there was intense real-world suspicion during this
period that the Soviets were developing MHD-driven attack
submarines. As late as 1990, military analysts were convinced
that strange “pods” mounted on the tails of new Soviet Victor
III-class submarines were MHD thrusters [“Evidence grows
the ‘pod’ is a superconductive drive,” Navy News and Undersea
Technol. 7 (11), 1–2 (March 19, 1990)]. Attempts to photograph
these pods caused a collision with a U.S. Navy ship, the U.S.S.
Drum, in 1981 [W. C. Reed, Red November: Inside the Secret
U.S.-Soviet Submarine War (William Morrow, 2010)].


Excerpts from:

The Hunt for Red October II:
A magnetohydrodynamic boat demonstration for
introductory physics

THE PHYSICS TEACHER, Vol. 55, PP. 460-466, November 2017

Last edited by MolaKule; 11/01/17 02:42 PM.

Reading is fundamental; understanding is not a given ability.
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561309
11/01/17 02:46 PM
11/01/17 02:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
If they're kind of heavy and slow could they be maid stationary and used to drive a train capsule in a tube?

Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561321
11/01/17 03:05 PM
11/01/17 03:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 429
Utah, USA
28oz Offline
28oz  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 429
Utah, USA
Oh man, the memories. I actually did a report in the 8th grade (nerd alert!) on this magnetohydrodynamic propulsion system. However, since I referenced it's inclusion in Tom Clancy's book, my teacher marked the report down drastically because it was "fiction" and the report wasn't supposed to be. I even included other science-y journals as references, but it wasn't enough to convince her otherwise.


-----------------
1990 Nissan 300zx - Castrol Edge Euro 0W-40
2004 Nissan Quest - Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40
2003 Ford Excursion 7.3 PSD - Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561323
11/01/17 03:08 PM
11/01/17 03:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,209
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,209
Midwest USA
"Con, Sonar: Cavitating !!"



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561358
11/01/17 04:03 PM
11/01/17 04:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,159
n.c.
gman2304 Offline
gman2304  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,159
n.c.
Way over my head, but I can’t suppress the visual of Sean Connery saying.......”sound of our silence”! Sorry.

Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561366
11/01/17 04:14 PM
11/01/17 04:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
A part that I really liked, working out a problem in real time when you're in the middle of it.


Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561369
11/01/17 04:21 PM
11/01/17 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 464
New York
Recalculating Offline
Recalculating  Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 464
New York
"one ping only"


2009 Honda CR-V EX-L 55k
2007 Buick Lacrosse 52k
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561409
11/01/17 05:19 PM
11/01/17 05:19 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Only problem is, MHD is neither silent, nor undetectable.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
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Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561455
11/01/17 06:02 PM
11/01/17 06:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,025
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,025
pa
a great movie + one of many from the best 007 EVER!!

Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561472
11/01/17 06:25 PM
11/01/17 06:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,022
OH
The Hunt for Red October was a really good novel and certainly the best written by its author.
Remember reading it in the eighties.
The movie sucked.


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
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Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: OneEyeJack] #4561523
11/01/17 07:25 PM
11/01/17 07:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,482
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,482
Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A part that I really liked, working out a problem in real time when you're in the middle of it.



I recently had the opportunity to track the USS Dallas during a mutual training evolution, I was the mission commander of the P-8 tracking the Dallas. It was impossible to resist the urge to say "Way to go Dallas" I also may have instructed my acoustic operator to give me "one ping and one ping only" on one of our active buoys. I always thought it would be fun to hunt that boat, glad I had the chance to before she is decommissioned.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561629
11/01/17 09:32 PM
11/01/17 09:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,625
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,625
Taiwan
Seen that boat in Kobe. Magneto hydro drive catamaran. Static shore exhibit now only unfortunately. Looks like a Star ship Enterprise shuttle, except its real, and a bit rustier.




Last edited by Ducked; 11/01/17 09:35 PM.
Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561634
11/01/17 09:35 PM
11/01/17 09:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
jaj Offline
jaj  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,060
Vancouver, Canada
Then there was the European diesel-electric submarine and crew that a prominent navy rented for exercises in the early 2000's. They searched for the entire exercise period and they never found it.

I have it on good authority that nothing scares a surface mariner more than a report of a D-E submarine in the area.

Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: jaj] #4561698
11/01/17 11:29 PM
11/01/17 11:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,625
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,625
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: jaj
Then there was the European diesel-electric submarine and crew that a prominent navy rented for exercises in the early 2000's. They searched for the entire exercise period and they never found it.

I have it on good authority that nothing scares a surface mariner more than a report of a D-E submarine in the area.




Believe some of those are now (retro?) fitted with fuel cells which are quiet and give them much longer (weeks?) underwater endurance, though not of course as long as a nuke boat.

Re: Hunt for Red October [Re: MolaKule] #4561795
11/02/17 05:11 AM
11/02/17 05:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,903
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,903
'Stralia
Would love to see a commercial scale MHD coal combustor

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