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Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? #4560164
10/31/17 11:58 AM
10/31/17 11:58 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
OldCowboy Offline OP
OldCowboy  Offline OP
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?

Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560168
10/31/17 12:00 PM
10/31/17 12:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,394
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,394
Kendall, FL
Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560171
10/31/17 12:02 PM
10/31/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: wemay] #4560172
10/31/17 12:03 PM
10/31/17 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.

It's a work in progress. For now, the only place that will guarantee ultra low sulfur gasoline at every pump is California.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: Quattro Pete] #4560196
10/31/17 12:23 PM
10/31/17 12:23 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
OldCowboy Offline OP
OldCowboy  Offline OP
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Nay, nay, good poster. Many of the 30 wt Euro oils which meet the VW 502 00 spec don't meet the ACEA A3/B4 spec. here are a couple of examples:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/motul....pdf?1492017670

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec46055W-30-24.0-en.pdf

This one is A3/B4, VW 502, but has a TBN of 8.8. http://catalog.lubricants.total.com/gallery/ORIGINALS/visuels/5500/5903

Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560201
10/31/17 12:29 PM
10/31/17 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
OK, my bad then. I've never seen these oils at retail. Basically, A3/B4 spec requires a TBN of 10 minimum.

That total oil is POS if they claim ACEA A3/B4 with TBN of only 8.8.

With that said, I don't think you're going to have any issues running an approved oil with TBN of 8 for 10k miles. There is a 1 year limit on your OCI as well.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: Quattro Pete] #4560219
10/31/17 12:49 PM
10/31/17 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
OldCowboy Offline OP
OldCowboy  Offline OP
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560231
10/31/17 01:05 PM
10/31/17 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 433
GA
drtyler Offline
drtyler  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 433
GA
Your link is for 5w-30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560243
10/31/17 01:32 PM
10/31/17 01:32 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,194
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,194
N.H, U.S.A.
Forget TBN. This is not a group I diesel oil. Certain preferred long drain basestocks do not require high TBN.

- 10K OCi? Unless I had a 7 litre sump or drove 3K miles / month on the highway = NOGO.

- Oil weight is universally about 7.3lbs/ Gal.

You must mean oil grade; e.g: 30, 40, 50

I apologize in advance for being a %7^^$)


Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 10/31/17 01:37 PM.

2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560250
10/31/17 01:47 PM
10/31/17 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,312
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

This is the one I'm talking about:
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fusio...BPXE-A9TNQ9.pdf


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560276
10/31/17 02:21 PM
10/31/17 02:21 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,017
NJ
UG_Passat Online content
UG_Passat  Online Content
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,017
NJ
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560289
10/31/17 02:43 PM
10/31/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
FWIW I just had a 9100 mile run with Schaeffer 9000, TBN listed as 7 - 7.5. TBN list of the 7.5; UOA said it could go further as TBN was still good.

I know, I know, different oil different application however I am addressing OP's concern that a 7 to 8 TBN is not enough for 10,000 miles.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy] #4560363
10/31/17 04:17 PM
10/31/17 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,857
Idaho
0W-40 Castrol ???


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: drtyler] #4560654
10/31/17 08:53 PM
10/31/17 08:53 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
OldCowboy Offline OP
OldCowboy  Offline OP
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: drtyler
Your link is for 5w-30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK


You're correct, thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: UG_Passat] #4560658
10/31/17 09:00 PM
10/31/17 09:00 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
OldCowboy Offline OP
OldCowboy  Offline OP
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.


Can you provide a reference for 502 00 TBN requirements? Audi says Liqui Moly Top Tec 4605 SAE 5W-30 meets the 502 00 spec. Liqui Moly says it has a TBN of 7.4 https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec4605SAE5W-30-24.0-us.pdf

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