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#4560164 - 10/31/17 11:58 AM Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US?
OldCowboy Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 742
Loc: SW Missouri
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?

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#4560168 - 10/31/17 12:00 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8895
Loc: Southeast Florida
Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4560171 - 10/31/17 12:02 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.

_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4560172 - 10/31/17 12:03 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: wemay]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: wemay
Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.

It's a work in progress. For now, the only place that will guarantee ultra low sulfur gasoline at every pump is California.
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4560196 - 10/31/17 12:23 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: Quattro Pete]
OldCowboy Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 742
Loc: SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Nay, nay, good poster. Many of the 30 wt Euro oils which meet the VW 502 00 spec don't meet the ACEA A3/B4 spec. here are a couple of examples:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/motul....pdf?1492017670

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec46055W-30-24.0-en.pdf

This one is A3/B4, VW 502, but has a TBN of 8.8. http://catalog.lubricants.total.com/gallery/ORIGINALS/visuels/5500/5903

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#4560201 - 10/31/17 12:29 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
OK, my bad then. I've never seen these oils at retail. Basically, A3/B4 spec requires a TBN of 10 minimum.

That total oil is POS if they claim ACEA A3/B4 with TBN of only 8.8.

With that said, I don't think you're going to have any issues running an approved oil with TBN of 8 for 10k miles. There is a 1 year limit on your OCI as well.
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4560219 - 10/31/17 12:49 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: Quattro Pete]
OldCowboy Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 742
Loc: SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

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#4560231 - 10/31/17 01:05 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
drtyler Offline


Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 406
Loc: GA
Your link is for 5w-30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

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#4560243 - 10/31/17 01:32 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Forget TBN. This is not a group I diesel oil. Certain preferred long drain basestocks do not require high TBN.

- 10K OCi? Unless I had a 7 litre sump or drove 3K miles / month on the highway = NOGO.

- Oil weight is universally about 7.3lbs/ Gal.

You must mean oil grade; e.g: 30, 40, 50

I apologize in advance for being a %7^^$)



Edited by ARCOgraphite (10/31/17 01:37 PM)
_________________________
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#4560250 - 10/31/17 01:47 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

This is the one I'm talking about:
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fusio...BPXE-A9TNQ9.pdf
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4560276 - 10/31/17 02:21 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1970
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.
_________________________
2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30

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#4560289 - 10/31/17 02:43 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
FWIW I just had a 9100 mile run with Schaeffer 9000, TBN listed as 7 - 7.5. TBN list of the 7.5; UOA said it could go further as TBN was still good.

I know, I know, different oil different application however I am addressing OP's concern that a 7 to 8 TBN is not enough for 10,000 miles.
_________________________
Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete

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#4560363 - 10/31/17 04:17 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: OldCowboy]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11008
Loc: Idaho
0W-40 Castrol ???
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#4560654 - 10/31/17 08:53 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: drtyler]
OldCowboy Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 742
Loc: SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: drtyler
Your link is for 5w-30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w-30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5W-30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK


You're correct, thanks for pointing that out.

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#4560658 - 10/31/17 09:00 PM Re: Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US? [Re: UG_Passat]
OldCowboy Offline


Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 742
Loc: SW Missouri
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.


Can you provide a reference for 502 00 TBN requirements? Audi says Liqui Moly Top Tec 4605 SAE 5W-30 meets the 502 00 spec. Liqui Moly says it has a TBN of 7.4 https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec4605SAE5W-30-24.0-us.pdf

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