Paper Oil Filters Are Obsolete
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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Look at the "fur" coming off that media and people stress about how many microns. No thanks, synthetic media for me.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
It does seem kind of odd that we're still using paper for oil filters.
It actually works..... and is relatively inexpensive.
How can anyone argue with that formula?
I ran a Motorcraft FL-1A 30,000 miles and it wasn't damaged at all when I cut it open. That engine was clean and got regular oil changes, so I knew it wasn't getting sludged up. I only ran it that long because the ones before it were handling well in excess of 10,000 miles with no failures. This was back in the 90's....
Let's all go back to "screen door screen" like VW type 1 engines used...
It does seem kind of odd that we're still using paper for oil filters.
It actually works..... and is relatively inexpensive.
How can anyone argue with that formula?
I ran a Motorcraft FL-1A 30,000 miles and it wasn't damaged at all when I cut it open. That engine was clean and got regular oil changes, so I knew it wasn't getting sludged up. I only ran it that long because the ones before it were handling well in excess of 10,000 miles with no failures. This was back in the 90's....
Let's all go back to "screen door screen" like VW type 1 engines used...
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I think they are. I don't know why you guys continue to buy them.
They have skinny little pleats and most the time come out crooked.
It seems at best they only filter at 95% and at lower micron level. Your oil is as clean as your filter keeps it. Are you trying to extend your OCI with cleaner oil or expose your engine to more dirt over a longer period that's the choice.
Ok and what do you think a torn purolator's efficiency is?! Also, Toyota OEM filters arent that efficient so...not sure it proves much..
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I think they are. I don't know why you guys continue to buy them.
They have skinny little pleats and most the time come out crooked.
It seems at best they only filter at 95% and at lower micron level. Your oil is as clean as your filter keeps it. Are you trying to extend your OCI with cleaner oil or expose your engine to more dirt over a longer period that's the choice.
Ok and what do you think a torn purolator's efficiency is?! Also, Toyota OEM filters arent that efficient so...not sure it proves much..
Merk, 10w-30 isn't specified for any current gasoline engines in North America. Cellulose type filters are OEM for many current gasoline engines in North America. Now, which is obsolete?
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Ironic coming from Mr. 10W-30.
True that.
Ironic coming from Mr. 10W-30.
True that.
Paper burns quicker and more completely than synthetic media, hence the ECO designation. Im sure theyll be around for a long time as long as they serve their purpose correctly.
I LOVE IT!
All these smart people-me included- and nobody mentions that data on filtering media is conspicuously absent from all these conversations.
Sise-by-side tests of media would be so interesting BITOG's owners could charge admission AND IT WOULD BE WOTRH IT.
Till then, oil analysis is all we have.
Yo, Merkava....don't let 'em gang up on you.
All these smart people-me included- and nobody mentions that data on filtering media is conspicuously absent from all these conversations.
Sise-by-side tests of media would be so interesting BITOG's owners could charge admission AND IT WOULD BE WOTRH IT.
Till then, oil analysis is all we have.
Yo, Merkava....don't let 'em gang up on you.
I still have a 65 VW bug with a screen door filter plus a magnet drain plug. I replace its 2.5 qts every 2K miles. Use 30wt summer and 10-30 winter. It has been in the family for 33 years now so can't send it off now.
Quote:
.....All these smart people-me included- and nobody mentions that data on filtering media is conspicuously absent from all these conversations.
Till then, oil analysis is all we have...
When you obtain authoritative data/information including efficiency from each of the OEM vehicle filter manufacturers, feel free to post it up here. You'll be the first.
As for UOA proving a filters worth, Blackstone has said and it's been posted here, at least as far as insolubles go, they see no significant difference in any other the filters used in UOAs. 'Perhaps', if one believes in the infallibility of their particle count service, that might me different. But that would take trending and there's many variables among different anecdotal ocis besides the filter.
And really, all that doesn't change the OP's premise that cellulose media filters are obsolete. Obviously the vehicle manufacturers don't think so. Good enough for me.
.....All these smart people-me included- and nobody mentions that data on filtering media is conspicuously absent from all these conversations.
Till then, oil analysis is all we have...
When you obtain authoritative data/information including efficiency from each of the OEM vehicle filter manufacturers, feel free to post it up here. You'll be the first.
As for UOA proving a filters worth, Blackstone has said and it's been posted here, at least as far as insolubles go, they see no significant difference in any other the filters used in UOAs. 'Perhaps', if one believes in the infallibility of their particle count service, that might me different. But that would take trending and there's many variables among different anecdotal ocis besides the filter.
And really, all that doesn't change the OP's premise that cellulose media filters are obsolete. Obviously the vehicle manufacturers don't think so. Good enough for me.
Even low cost filters seem to be at least a blend now, like the Fram EG.
Frantz makes two filters now, a cellulose and a synthetic, and the synthetic is rated at 2 microns while the cellulose has always been considered sub micron. I think they make some good points here.
http://www.frantzfilters.com/science/
http://frantzfilters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FrantzResults.pdf
http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/
Frantz makes two filters now, a cellulose and a synthetic, and the synthetic is rated at 2 microns while the cellulose has always been considered sub micron. I think they make some good points here.
http://www.frantzfilters.com/science/
http://frantzfilters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/FrantzResults.pdf
http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/
Somedays I think Merk’s Posts are “already obsolete”
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
+1 Cellulose has advantages, however super long life is not one of them.
Bunk.
Most European makes specify 10k+ filter change intervals, and they're almost exclusively cellulose media.
+1
This is a paper filter from my 530i after 10K miles... it looks like it could go another 10K...
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
+1 Cellulose has advantages, however super long life is not one of them.
Bunk.
Most European makes specify 10k+ filter change intervals, and they're almost exclusively cellulose media.
+1
This is a paper filter from my 530i after 10K miles... it looks like it could go another 10K...
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
... This is a paper filter from my 530i after 10K miles... it looks like it could go another 10K...
...as did the paper filter I recently removed after 17.5K, and many others that went about that far in my previous vehicle.
... This is a paper filter from my 530i after 10K miles... it looks like it could go another 10K...
...as did the paper filter I recently removed after 17.5K, and many others that went about that far in my previous vehicle.
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