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Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. #4558491
10/29/17 03:28 PM
10/29/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,480
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline OP
FlyNavyP3  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,480
Jacksonville, FL
Good afternoon BITOG,

Had the trusty 4Runner in the garage for an oil change. Last looked at the air filter back in the spring when I last serviced the truck. The filter was dirty then as it was a year ago when I installed a filter minder. Since I installed the filter minder a little over a year ago it's read 8" of restriction, I was tempted to change the filter a year ago but when the gauge still said it was ok I decided to see how much further I could go based off the gauge. Well at least a year is the answer, this filter is far far dirtier than I'd normally let an air filter get based on a visual inspection yet was still only yielding a restriction of 8". Basically it could've gone further. Silicon readings on the UOA have been steady for as long as this filter has been in service. I only elected to change it at this point to see if I could get lower silicon numbers with a fresh filter. My original intent was to run the filter to 11" of restriction then change, perhaps I'll do that next time. Outgoing filter was a Car Quest premium blue, new filter is a Napa Gold. Enjoy the pictures.






Filter was in service for 5 years and just shy of 40,000 miles.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558501
10/29/17 03:45 PM
10/29/17 03:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
My recollection of air particulate pollution (APC) d/p's was that 11" was very substantial. The baghouse filter differential pressures would typically run 4"-6" w.g. as they went through their cleaning cycles (2-3" was near new with max flow)....those were always taken at 90-100% rated induced draft fan rpm (or at boiler rated output...ie max heat flow). A number of 8" or higher seems headed to being "blinded."

I just checked my car's air filter at the 35,000 mi point and it didn't have any discoloration. Typically, I haven't run across dirty looking air filters the past 20 yrs. That 11 in. of diff press is certainly filtering much better, though at the possible expense of much less than full air flow into the engine. When I use to track idle to WOT vacuum on my old muscle cars it would range from 1-2" up to around 22" during full range of rpm. An 11 inch drop during normal running seems like a lot.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558508
10/29/17 04:01 PM
10/29/17 04:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Connecticut


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558512
10/29/17 04:05 PM
10/29/17 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,799
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,799
Central Washington
I like the K&N filter minder as it tops out at 10" which is IMO reasonable for a N/A gasoline engine. Thats only around 1/2 of a psi IIRC but at maximum flow it saw aka Wide open. Itd be like going up in elevation like 1000ft or so. You would probably only notice if you did a few passes on a drag strip with the old one and then a few with the clean one
Just driving around you won't see that kind of restriction since the restriction is normally the throttle blade.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558524
10/29/17 04:16 PM
10/29/17 04:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
My record is 105K on an air filter before it tripped a check engine light. It didn't look horrible, though maybe a bit dark. Sure enough, I couldn't see light through it when shined from the back.

Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: Colt45ws] #4558525
10/29/17 04:17 PM
10/29/17 04:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,480
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline OP
FlyNavyP3  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,480
Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I like the K&N filter minder as it tops out at 10" which is IMO reasonable for a N/A gasoline engine. Thats only around 1/2 of a psi IIRC but at maximum flow it saw aka Wide open. Itd be like going up in elevation like 1000ft or so. You would probably only notice if you did a few passes on a drag strip with the old one and then a few with the clean one
Just driving around you won't see that kind of restriction since the restriction is normally the throttle blade.


I like that filter minder as well however they're really proud of them! I purchased 3 5-25/30" meters for less than the price of one 0-10" hence why I was planning to just change by 11". Seems like 8-11" is a reasonable time to change at least based on appearance. At least in this vehicle the AC or mechanical fan have more of an impact on performance than anything, I'm sure it'll run better with the new filter but I'm not sure I'll ever notice any difference.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558536
10/29/17 04:27 PM
10/29/17 04:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,748
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,748
Upstate NY
I am checking air filters for mouse damage as much as being restricted.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: Donald] #4558543
10/29/17 04:35 PM
10/29/17 04:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,651
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,651
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kestas: In what vehicle did you run an AF 105K?

In my world AFs look OK at 30K but are frequently sandy. Sand falls off them after removal. I just replace them.

Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558549
10/29/17 04:45 PM
10/29/17 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,734
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,734
New York
Could somebody explain how a filter minder works and how it is installed? Thank You.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558576
10/29/17 05:20 PM
10/29/17 05:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 89
Pocatello, Idaho
compratio10_5 Offline
compratio10_5  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 89
Pocatello, Idaho
The best air filter document that I know of is “Nanofibers in Filtration Applications in Transportation” by Employees of Donaldson Company given in 2001. Here is a quote about consumers and light duty vehicles:

“Consumers must also make maint decisions about the air filters in their cars. This user group is relatively unsophisticated in their knowledge of filter maintenance and function. Air filters are perhaps the most easily serviced but least understood parts on a vehicle. Other common replacement parts on a vehicle such as tires, wiper blades, oil and oil filters work best when new. However, this is NOT the case with conventional air filters. Since most (dry) air filters rely on the formation of a dust cake to improve the performance of a filter media, over-servicing can lead to dire consequences from inadequate engine protection.

Over-servicing is common in light vehicles. Light vehicles are generally not equipped with filter restriction indicators. Air filters are often inspected by maintenance personnel during oil changes. In spite of the typical manufacturer's recommendation of at least a 30,000-mile change interval, it is common for dealers, service stations and quick lubes to recommend more frequent air filter changes. Given the frequency of oil changes and air filter changes at quick lubes, it is expected that many light vehicle filters are changed much more frequently than manufacturers recommend.

While this over-servicing phenomenon is frustrating to those who understand filter media performance, the filter industry has not sufficiently educated customers on how air filters function. Not surprisingly, filter manufacturers, distributors, dealers, service stations and quick lubes have economic incentives to change and sell more filters. It is also understandable that consumers believe that filters work best when they are new (like other parts) and have a clean appearance.

In spite of the best intentions of automotive mechanics and consumers, typical automotive air filters are notably inefficient at capturing particles less than 5 microns in size. Several studies have shown that particles between 1-5 microns cause engine wear, which will lead to increased engine emissions and shorter engine life. Because many car engine air filters are over-serviced, a typical automotive filter may operate most of its life without the protective benefits of a well developed protective dust cake. As the filter becomes dirty by visual appearance (and the dust cake finally starts working) the filter is often exchanged.”


It's not what you don't know that hurts, it's what you think you know that ain't so. Will Rogers
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: pbm] #4558577
10/29/17 05:21 PM
10/29/17 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,799
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,799
Central Washington
Originally Posted By: pbm
Could somebody explain how a filter minder works and how it is installed? Thank You.

You drill a hole somewhere after the filter, often in the part of the filter housing that leads to the engine. Insert the provided grommet and the filter minder pushes in to the grommet.

Then you drive. I usually like to floor it at least once at let the engine wrap out once so it sees maximum air demand.
The Filter minder will 'ratchet' up and then show you how much restriction the air filter is causing in inches of water. As the filter gets more loaded it will ratchet up more and more until it reads that a change is due.
In his case, he has one that reads to 30" of water, which is too much for a N/A engine so he is stopping part way into its range. That size is suited more for a turbo charged diesel engine (The turbo makes up for the restriction by sucking harder, so there is no loss of power from the engine. Same way they dont lose but a few % going up into the high mountains.)


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558611
10/29/17 05:59 PM
10/29/17 05:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,277
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,277
San Antonio, TX
I had the K&n on my Mazda but a new filter would max it out. I put a filter minder and it’s been on 11” since pretty much new.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: Kira] #4558653
10/29/17 06:49 PM
10/29/17 06:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Originally Posted By: Kira
Kestas: In what vehicle did you run an AF 105K?

In my world AFs look OK at 30K but are frequently sandy. Sand falls off them after removal. I just replace them.

This was on a 2002 Volvo S40 with well-kept records. I know that even 30K can be too soon to change an air filter in mild environments, so I let it go as long as I dared. There was no down side to running an air filter too long, except for high end performance.

Back in the days of buying Hastings filters for $1 I didn't think twice about changing air filters at the prescribed interval or less. But with filters costing over $20, I like to get my money's worth out of them.

Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: Colt45ws] #4558675
10/29/17 07:06 PM
10/29/17 07:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,734
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,734
New York
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: pbm
Could somebody explain how a filter minder works and how it is installed? Thank You.

You drill a hole somewhere after the filter, often in the part of the filter housing that leads to the engine. Insert the provided grommet and the filter minder pushes in to the grommet.

Then you drive. I usually like to floor it at least once at let the engine wrap out once so it sees maximum air demand.
The Filter minder will 'ratchet' up and then show you how much restriction the air filter is causing in inches of water. As the filter gets more loaded it will ratchet up more and more until it reads that a change is due.
In his case, he has one that reads to 30" of water, which is too much for a N/A engine so he is stopping part way into its range. That size is suited more for a turbo charged diesel engine (The turbo makes up for the restriction by sucking harder, so there is no loss of power from the engine. Same way they dont lose but a few % going up into the high mountains.)



Thanks Colton: Are you saying that the hole should be drilled in the (smooth part) of the intake (as opposed to the accordion like section) downstream of the air filter housing?

PS: I ask because this intrigues me....I've always been a stickler for maintaining my vehicles but I'll admit that the A/F got little attention....I would change them out approx. every 30K (sometimes I would shake them out and reinstall every 10 or 15K but I stopped doing that because I was worried about proper sealing of the filter box after disturbing it...)


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Pics of air filter change interval based on gage.. [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4558755
10/29/17 08:34 PM
10/29/17 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
... Silicon readings on the UOA have been steady for as long as this filter has been in service. I only elected to change it at this point to see if I could get lower silicon numbers with a fresh filter. ...
Not likely, because your old one was filtering small particles better than it did when new---as the Donaldson quote points out.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
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