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#4554255 - 10/25/17 02:49 PM Water in oil analysis
loneryder Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 489
Loc: WV
Got my results back from ALS Tribology and the only thing questionable was .12% water. It's a Ford E350 RV with the V-10. It's been sitting so I ran it at idle to warm it up. I thought it got up to operating temp. There is no antifreeze reported. Do you think the water could be from just idling it to warm it up? I don't know where else it could come from. They could not test the viscosity due to the water present???

Also as an FYI, when you send samples in to them in Atlanta, put it in an envelope instead of just mailing the canister. They have a problem with the post office holding the canisters for weeks at a time before delivering them. Lady told me they seem to receive samples in envelopes in a timely manner.

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#4554258 - 10/25/17 02:52 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
Water condensation could be there just from it sitting for a while. And just bringing it up to operating temp may not be enough to burn it off. You'd probably have to run it longer to get rid of all the moisture.
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#4554402 - 10/25/17 05:46 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
thastinger Offline


Registered: 10/23/17
Posts: 62
Loc: VA
Well, since water evaps at 212, you would likely have to warm the oil up beyond that temp and keep it there for a bit in order to burn it off.

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#4554416 - 10/25/17 05:56 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
There's always water in UOA. Most UOA's don't use FTIR or KF, so they don't detect it, that's all. But it's still there.

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#4554453 - 10/25/17 06:25 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
StevieC Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 17116
Loc: Ontario, Canada
As long as there is no traces of coolant as called out by the Lab I would think it's a combination of it sitting and the oil not reaching full operating temperature so it could burn off the moisture.

I always take my samples after I return from driving around doing shopping/errands etc. so I know the oil got hot enough to give me a good reading.

Hope that helps.
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#4554462 - 10/25/17 06:36 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 20463
Loc: Upstate NY
Getting the oil to operating temp is not going to burn off any condensation water.
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#4554501 - 10/25/17 07:20 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
Also, and Mr. Cedrone can vouch for this or at least he knows who could, what is being detected as "water" in those tests is not always "water".

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#4554545 - 10/25/17 08:03 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 10587
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Trace amounts of moisture in engine oil will most certainly evaporate off over some run time at normal operating temps and be processed by the PCV system. That's one of the reasons the PCV system is there. The closer to the boiling point of water the faster this would happen, but it will occur at less temperature.
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#4554554 - 10/25/17 08:08 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 12340
Loc: The Motor City
We use Karl Fischer at work to determine water content in grease. Anything up to 0.5% is considered normal for new grease. I suspect the same may be attributed to motor oil. Your 0.12% may be as low as you can expect it.

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#4554644 - 10/25/17 09:46 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
loneryder Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 489
Loc: WV
Thanks guys. There was zero antifreeze in it. I just didn't run it long enough. Why would such little water prevent them from testing viscosity??

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#4554958 - 10/26/17 09:34 AM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35878
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: loneryder
Why would such little water prevent them from testing viscosity??

That's puzzling to me.
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#4555409 - 10/26/17 06:12 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
you can actually use the "water" content to determine the fueling conditions.

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#4555593 - 10/26/17 08:33 PM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
They declined vis test on one of my samples for water too. Seems to be the way they operate. No explanation though.
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#4555835 - 10/27/17 01:43 AM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: DoubleWasp]
danielLD Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 226
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
They declined vis test on one of my samples for water too. Seems to be the way they operate. No explanation though.


I've had many times when lab techs wouldn't run a sample through PC because it was too dark, etc. Some labs, the lab tech is responsible for operation and will get dinged for not stopping a sample that could break the machine.

Unless your a multimillion dollar client, they're not going to stop run time if they think your sample will give trouble.

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#4556845 - 10/28/17 04:46 AM Re: Water in oil analysis [Re: loneryder]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Makes sense.
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