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AGM vs Flooded cell battery #4553574
10/24/17 08:05 PM
10/24/17 08:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Online content OP
SilverFusion2010  Online Content OP
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
Which is better for a daily driver? I've always had flooded cell batteries for vehicles. Are AGM worth the premium price?


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553583
10/24/17 08:10 PM
10/24/17 08:10 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 32
WI
W9HDG Offline
W9HDG  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 32
WI
I am interested in this topic too for my Suburban

Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553589
10/24/17 08:15 PM
10/24/17 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
In a ATV or motorcycle yes in a car battery no.
You would have to get 10-15 years out of a AGM battery to make it money smart.
AGMs do out last flooded cells in ATVs and Motorcycles only because they don't have the charging system cars do.
It's just not worth the money.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553594
10/24/17 08:18 PM
10/24/17 08:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,518
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,518
Wet side WA
In my Duramax my AC Delco batteries lasted 10 years they didn't die I just replaced them winter was coming.


2004 Corolla 126813
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74478
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553611
10/24/17 08:31 PM
10/24/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,300
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,300
New Jersey
You're in FL. Its a daily driver.

Heat degrades batteries. Can't avoid that where you are. Being less than 100% charged degrades batteries. Assuming you don't do just ultra short tripping, you're hopefully good there.

AGM has longer cycle life and less self discharge. Since your car is a daily driver, self discharge isn't a big deal. Ultimate power isn't as huge a deal,either because it doesn't get super cold.

Other than very specific circumstances, I'd stick with a flooded battery personally.

Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553621
10/24/17 08:39 PM
10/24/17 08:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,449
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,449
Fort Worth, Texas
I don't think they are, With all the Optima failures I've seen over the years!
At my shop we have to carry AGM batteries because most builds get the battery relocated to the trunk....We used to be a Optima dealer....We now carry XS Power AGM batteries & they are really good but NOT available in every group size & they're quite expensive.

They only other AGM battery I have a lot of experience with is Odyssey, Hit & Miss but better than Optima!!!

I started buying Lead acid Continental batteries a few years back for my personal vehicles & have had great luck with them.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4553635
10/24/17 08:54 PM
10/24/17 08:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,449
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,449
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
In my Duramax my AC Delco batteries lasted 10 years they didn't die I just replaced them winter was coming.


Delco batteries used to be pretty good, I got about 7 years out of the originals in my '06 Duramax. The Last Delco I bought didn't last 2 years.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553670
10/24/17 09:20 PM
10/24/17 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,818
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,818
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
I generally get 8+ yrs out of an agm.in my jeep. I am lucky to get 3 yrs out of a flooded battery in it.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553731
10/24/17 11:40 PM
10/24/17 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,220
Port Orange, Florida
I got almost 8 years out of my factory Dodge battery and I am in 4 years on my current battery ( a Walmart Everstart). I just don't see the value in a AGM. Cost three times as much and "If" it lasts twice as long you still aren't ahead.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553759
10/25/17 02:22 AM
10/25/17 02:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 181
MI
HorseThief Offline
HorseThief  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 181
MI
There's a couple things to consider.

First off, what's inside the vehicle from the factory and why?
-some vehicles come with agm batteries from the manufacturer for better charge/discharge characteristics, extreme vibration resistance or non-spillable design. There are vehicles that the PCM's voltage regulator/charge controller are programmed around the specs and abilities of an AGM battery. Replacing with a flooded battery requires having the computer reprogrammed (at least according to dealers/guides)

-sometimes manufacturers do a bad job of picking a battery or designing a charging system. Look at certain YMs of ford fusions that chew through batteries in 3-4 years. A lot of modern vehicles are burning through their factory batteries faster than ever. I've been selling a lot of batteries for 2013-2014 vehicles this year. Other times in powersport applications, smaller batteries were used where space couldn't be made. There's nothing you can really do to get a significantly longer lifespan out of batteries in these situations. Also, there's quite a few powersport flooded batteries with no glass mat equivalent.

- you just can't extrapolate your experience from one vehicle and battery to another. Getting 8 years out of a battery on a mid 00s pickup is easy because there's comparatively low parasitic drain and a big honking alternator compared to more modern vehicles along with batteries rated at at least 50% higher cranking amps than what they actually need (diesels not necessarily included).

Next, how is the vehicle used?
- AGM batteries have a number of advantages over flooded batteries, but that doesn't necessarily meen they provide any benefit to you (at least not for the 50%+ price increase) for a daily driver.

- vehicles that sit for long periods of time, as well as vehicles that only make short trips will benefit from AGM batteries faster charging and resistance to acid stratification, as well as better deep cycling capabilities. Of course this is only to a point, they're not infallible.

- Vehicles with heavy electric drains such as winches and wheelchair lifts can benefit from faster charging and better cycling ability.

- vehicles in severe service situations such as heavy shock or vibrations, rolled vehicle/extreme angles, extreme heat or cold can see better battery lifespan out of an AGMcas well.

Holy [censored], its 4AM

in a nutshell, are AGMs better? Yes. Do you need better, or will it net you more service life for your dollar than a flood battery? Who knows. Pure Lead AGMs like oddysey and northstar tend to be the best available, with any of the standard lead calcium batteries being second.

Otherwise, for a daily driver, figure out what the average lifespan is of a standard replacement, and then decide if you will need longer service life or more reliability and if you need to spend more to get it.
Also, do you plan on keeping the vehicle or being alive for that long? People get sick of cars - they also get sick and die.

Last edited by HorseThief; 10/25/17 02:31 AM.

I saw a brown dog
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553768
10/25/17 03:20 AM
10/25/17 03:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,989
Manchester, England
The ROI just isn't there, outside of really extreme and infrequent circumstances.

99 out of 100 motorists studied would be better served with flooded cells.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4553822
10/25/17 05:35 AM
10/25/17 05:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 261
Illinois
carguy996 Offline
carguy996  Offline
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 261
Illinois
I have found that AGM batteries seem to work really well for vehicles with lots of electronics. Now that there are store brand AGM batteries out there, costs have come down. My local farm store sells Duration brand AGM batteries for the same price as their best regular battery. I installed a Duration in my old 2010 Grand Caravan and in my 2014 Honda Odyssey and the results have been fantastic. Cold doesn't seem to phase it, the cars always fired right up in the cold. With the regular battery, both cars would crank slow in the winter, not the case with the AGM in my experiences. To me, the AGM is the only way to go now when I need batteries with the cost being much more competitive.


2018 Nissan Rogue Platinum AWD w/ ProPilot
2014 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite 3.5
2013 Chrysler 200 Convertible 3.6
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: carguy996] #4553941
10/25/17 08:21 AM
10/25/17 08:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
To HorseThief, Olas, carguy996: GREAT, CLEAR, INFORMATIVE POSTS. Thank you.

Question 1: Are there not electronics built into AGM batteries?
Do these electronics share the "infant mortality / long life" stats of other electronics?

Question 2: Is it at all realistic to fear that battery companies will make lead/acid batteries more cheaply in order to boost AGM battery sales?

Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4554039
10/25/17 09:44 AM
10/25/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,700
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,700
Southeast
1. To the above - there are no electronics built into AGM batteries.

2. anything we say here will be conjecture. it's more likely they will get their AGM manufacturing solid and then start cost-cutting.

I've started moving to AGM, and I always shoot for a physically larger battery than oem. Just this weekend the type 51R in the crv quit. The best flooded battery was $150. I picked up a group 35 AGM for $180. Both had the same 3 year warranty. The last two Advanced Auto golds I've bought failed just outside of 3 years, and the warranty was only 3 years. My first AGM is approaching 3 years in the Tundra and spins the engine over very quickly. As long as the AGM construction remains un-cheapened, I'm optimistic about using them. Amongst my family, we have 4 in service now. $30 between top flooded and AGM was not a big deal to me. The total cost was, though.

On the flip side, a recent deep cycle set me back all of $90. I think with batteries, the way to go is probably the cheapest, or the highest.

I will note that all of the recent floodeds I've had fail early, I believe to have been made by JCI. I used to be a fan of JCI but not so much now. If I could easily source Deka or east penn I'd gladly give them a shot. I'm also a fan of odyssey (had them in a camper a long time ago) and the no-frills battery was simply well made and lasted a long time. In my area, however, they're hard to find.

I've never been a real fan of Interstate, but now JCI seems to be declining to about the same.


Last edited by meep; 10/25/17 09:45 AM.

2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: AGM vs Flooded cell battery [Re: SilverFusion2010] #4554085
10/25/17 10:29 AM
10/25/17 10:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
Reunion Island
Superflan Offline
Superflan  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
Reunion Island
Personal experience:

The Koleos in my sig is fitted with an AGM battery from factory.

The electrical management seems to be tailored to use the abilities of AGM to the max:
Theres a smart charging logic: maximizing load on alternator when decelerating or braking, minimizing recharge if not needed (80% state of charge?) when moving at low speed (city driving)...

Also, starter motor seems to be different.

Models with manual transmission may have start&stop technology on some model years.

Lifetime of the oem varta battery here (summer all year): 3 years max, considering 180 days per year doing door to door driving, approximately 60 starts per day.


Peugeot Partner 1.9 D, 5W40 C3, 245000 Km, running on WVO
Wife's Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, dealers overfilled, 16000 Km
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