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#4551961 - 10/23/17 12:46 PM Fresh Motor, What Oil?
Zack_Grill Offline


Registered: 10/21/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Louisiana
I'm new to the forums, so I hope I followed the rules.

I have a 93 Toyota MR2 Turbo.

I need advice on break in oil, how long to run it, and what oil to switch to once that is done. Filter advice would be awesome as well!



Motor is currently on a stand and being put together by myself...

Engine builder and machine shop installed Wiseco pistons, Eagle rods, King bearings all into a 5sfe block out of a 98 Camry. I'm using a 3sgte cylinder head. Cylinder head has BC racing 264 cams, 1zz shimless buckets, and ATS valve springs. Rev limit will be increased a solid 1,000rpm for a redline of about 8,500. It's using a 5sfe oil cooler, and oil pump; oil filter relocation (-10AN lines) is being put together as we speak to clear the exhaust. The block is capable of holding about 700whp(rods being the limitation), turbo (BorgWarner S252 journal bearing) and fuel system are only good for about 450hp which is were I plan on keeping it. Oh, and it will be running on corn.




The car is going to be street driven, some drag racing, little to no road racing or autox. Solid even mix of highway and city miles. Probably less than 5000 miles a year. Trap speed will be an estimated 120-130 mph, so it will see some speed at the strip.

I know the factory oil was Eneos 5w30 - here are the specs on it, but I doubt that matters now.


I'm a pretty big T6 fan, which I use in my truck and my GLHS, but I didn't think it would be a fitting application for the fresh motor.

So what is the best break in oil to use?
How long do run the break in oil?
What oil do switch to once that is done?
_________________________
Knowledge talks, wisdom listens

1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo - 5SGTE - 2.2L
1986 Shelby GHLS - Turbo II - 2.2L #219
1993 Toyota Pickup - 22RE - 2.4L

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#4551968 - 10/23/17 12:53 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
rooflessVW Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 4061
Loc: North Carolina
Joe Gibbs 5W-30

They also have a few other grades.
_________________________
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#4551971 - 10/23/17 12:55 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
FlyPenFly Offline


Registered: 08/04/04
Posts: 250
Loc: San Diego
If it were me, I'd probably use Redline 10w40 or Castol 0w40.
_________________________
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#4552005 - 10/23/17 01:42 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
Bgallagher Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 3159
Loc: Boston, MA
ask the engine builder for their recommendation.
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#4552040 - 10/23/17 02:26 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Bgallagher]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11003
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
ask the engine builder for their recommendation.
That would be too easy because why trust a guy that builds engines and sees what does and doesn't work. Heck lets ask People who don't know the difference between a clearance and the tolerances.
_________________________
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#4552073 - 10/23/17 02:57 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2673
Loc: South Carolina
There are many, many opinions on oils and break-in oils. If your engine has solid or sliding lifters then conventional wisdom is to use a higher ZDDP oil for break-in and thereafter. But according to one guys testing, he says this is bogus. It's more about the oil's film strength. If you have time to read some and read fairly fast, then check out his longstanding blog here. If you want to see his ratings based on his test results, then scroll down the very long page to the numbered ratings. He tends to update some oils as formulations change.

The reality is that there are now additives in some oils that are more effective and better overall than ZDDP ever was. There are high quality oils such as the German-made Fuchs GT-1 that contain no ZDDP yet have excellent wear control. There are a few high quality aftermarket oil additives that safely boost the anti-wear and anti-friction of almost any standalone forumlation, without reducing the overall effectiveness of the rest of the oil's additive package.

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#4552077 - 10/23/17 02:59 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
LaszloToth Offline


Registered: 08/09/13
Posts: 50
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Builders usually provide a break-in procedure when they release a rebuilt engine. Since you're doing it yourself, you're reaching out for advice.

My built engine came with instructions for a 20 min oil change followed by a 100 km oil change and then a 1000 km oil change. They say used conventional oil for the initial 2 oil changes and after that move to a synthetic oil for the standard oil change interval. I heard conventional is better for ring seating and it's cheaper as well.

Here's a link example:

MAP's proper engine break-in procedure

After that my engine assembler suggested xW-40 oil because of the forged pistons.
_________________________
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Buckle up. The new Subaru WRX STi is here.

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#4552082 - 10/23/17 03:03 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2673
Loc: South Carolina
I am going this weekend to the Charlotte NC Dirt Track to check out a new product that has dramatically improved the durability of many race engines for break-in and during the whole season, along with multiplying the typical oil life of the race engines by many times. The guys that have been using this additive for the last several years are all using/testing in their tow vehicles and personal vehicles as well with great results. That's all I can say for now. I have yet to try the product.

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#4552101 - 10/23/17 03:27 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: CT8]
Zack_Grill Offline


Registered: 10/21/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
ask the engine builder for their recommendation.
That would be too easy because why trust a guy that builds engines and sees what does and doesn't work. Heck lets ask People who don't know the difference between a clearance and the tolerances.


God forbid you want a second opinion, right? /s

Engine builder has yet to get back with me after a couple days, so I went the collective route. Motor is far from done, so it's not like I'm starting it tomorrow.
_________________________
Knowledge talks, wisdom listens

1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo - 5SGTE - 2.2L
1986 Shelby GHLS - Turbo II - 2.2L #219
1993 Toyota Pickup - 22RE - 2.4L

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#4552165 - 10/23/17 04:41 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: CT8]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8662
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: CT8
Heck lets ask People who don't know the difference between a clearance and the tolerances.


Who are you talking about? Perhaps there are some people here who have built engines. I agree with asking the builder, but no reason to bite the hand of someone asking a question.

OP, I would want a high zinc oil, and i would want to know what the main and rod bearing clearances are.


Edited by spasm3 (10/23/17 04:45 PM)
_________________________
13 elantra 68k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche76k synpwr 10w30
01 saturnsc1 185k synpwr rebuilt
17 mazda cx-5 3900 miles m1 0w20/0w40 mix

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#4552258 - 10/23/17 06:04 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: LaszloToth]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1810
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: LaszloToth
Builders usually provide a break-in procedure when they release a rebuilt engine. Since you're doing it yourself, you're reaching out for advice.

My built engine came with instructions for a 20 min oil change followed by a 100 km oil change and then a 1000 km oil change. They say used conventional oil for the initial 2 oil changes and after that move to a synthetic oil for the standard oil change interval. I heard conventional is better for ring seating and it's cheaper as well.

Here's a link example:

MAP's proper engine break-in procedure

After that my engine assembler suggested xW-40 oil because of the forged pistons.


This ^

My personal regimen differs slightly from the above, but it's close enough. Use either, or one similar.

First change after it's been properly run up on the stand. 20 minutes? Close enough.
Second change after 50 engine hours / 500 mi / 750 kM. Switch to synthetic at this point.

With your motor, xxW-40 or xxW-50.

Because lots of top end race parts and turbo, plus your indicated desire to run to 8500 (which is a lot of stress on the rods. Do your math for piston speed and buy a pill for that RPM for fuel cut / rev limiter). REMEMBER: if you do something stupid with a manual transmission and a downshift, the rev limiter won't help you; it will spin to 10,000 rpm with no fuel and a bad downshift, and the rods will suffer that day.

Next change at 2,000 mi / 3000 kM.

Determine OCI with the help of the 2k/3k Blackstone report, but if you are going to see track duty, you probably are going to be changing often by street car standards.

Good luck.
_________________________
'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]

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#4552282 - 10/23/17 06:18 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: bmwtechguy]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1810
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
There are many, many opinions on oils and break-in oils. If your engine has solid or sliding lifters then conventional wisdom is to use a higher ZDDP oil for break-in and thereafter. But according to one guys testing, he says this is bogus. It's more about the oil's film strength. If you have time to read some and read fairly fast, then check out his longstanding blog here. If you want to see his ratings based on his test results, then scroll down the very long page to the numbered ratings. He tends to update some oils as formulations change.

The reality is that there are now additives in some oils that are more effective and better overall than ZDDP ever was. There are high quality oils such as the German-made Fuchs GT-1 that contain no ZDDP yet have excellent wear control. There are a few high quality aftermarket oil additives that safely boost the anti-wear and anti-friction of almost any standalone forumlation, without reducing the overall effectiveness of the rest of the oil's additive package.


He's using a cam with "shimless buckets" (which I've never heard of, but perhaps he means 'shim under bucket'; in any case directly acting on the valves; no lifters involved).
_________________________
'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]

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#4552302 - 10/23/17 06:33 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
Nick1994 Offline


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 10118
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
8,500 RPMs is 1,000 more than stock?

My Camry has the same engine and doesn’t rev over 5,600 RPMs
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 79k PU 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 228k M1 AFE 0w30 & Wix
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 146k M1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra

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#4552349 - 10/23/17 07:10 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
Zack_Grill Offline


Registered: 10/21/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: CT8
Heck lets ask People who don't know the difference between a clearance and the tolerances.


Who are you talking about? Perhaps there are some people here who have built engines. I agree with asking the builder, but no reason to bite the hand of someone asking a question.

OP, I would want a high zinc oil, and i would want to know what the main and rod bearing clearances are.


Sadly, I don't know them. Engine builder might remember, but I highly doubt it. He's a busy guy, so I'll ask, but I doubt I'll get a response any time soon. There where some numbers sharpied on all the piston tops (3.441) but I'm not even going to lie and say I know what that means.

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
He's using a cam with "shimless buckets" (which I've never heard of, but perhaps he means 'shim under bucket'; in any case directly acting on the valves; no lifters involved).


No they are shimless. Solid individual buckets. Each one is a set size, not shim under bucket. Look at the 1zzfe engine for more details.


Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: LaszloToth
Builders usually provide a break-in procedure when they release a rebuilt engine. Since you're doing it yourself, you're reaching out for advice.

My built engine came with instructions for a 20 min oil change followed by a 100 km oil change and then a 1000 km oil change. They say used conventional oil for the initial 2 oil changes and after that move to a synthetic oil for the standard oil change interval. I heard conventional is better for ring seating and it's cheaper as well.

Here's a link example:

MAP's proper engine break-in procedure

After that my engine assembler suggested xW-40 oil because of the forged pistons.


This ^

My personal regimen differs slightly from the above, but it's close enough. Use either, or one similar.

First change after it's been properly run up on the stand. 20 minutes? Close enough.
Second change after 50 engine hours / 500 mi / 750 kM. Switch to synthetic at this point.

With your motor, xxW-40 or xxW-50.

Because lots of top end race parts and turbo, plus your indicated desire to run to 8500 (which is a lot of stress on the rods. Do your math for piston speed and buy a pill for that RPM for fuel cut / rev limiter). REMEMBER: if you do something stupid with a manual transmission and a downshift, the rev limiter won't help you; it will spin to 10,000 rpm with no fuel and a bad downshift, and the rods will suffer that day.

Next change at 2,000 mi / 3000 kM.

Determine OCI with the help of the 2k/3k Blackstone report, but if you are going to see track duty, you probably are going to be changing often by street car standards.

Good luck.


Thanks for the detail. It is running MSPNP, so rev limit I believe is handled. It uses both spark and fuel cut set for both Rev limit and launch control. Launch control is currently off of a clutch switch, which may be changing in the future. I'm a granny shifter, and not competitive, so hopefully the only miss shifts will be trying to get it in reverse lol. Thanks for the mileage suggestions.

Can't say I know what the piston speed would be, but I'll look into it.



Originally Posted By: Nick1994
8,500 RPMs is 1,000 more than stock?

My Camry has the same engine and doesn’t rev over 5,600 RPMs


The 5SFE rev's really low because it is single cam. The 3SGTE head I'm using is dual cam with a rev limit of about 7,000 RPM. Considering the cam profile, I should be able to squeeze a little more useable power band out of it, but the last 500 rpm will probably only be for track duty depending on wheel size and gearing of the run so I don't have an extra shift. I highly doubt it will make any extra power past 8Krpm, but some shimless bucket motors rev to 9Krpm, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Side note, incase you didn't know, the 96-98 5SFE blocks and cranks out of Camry's are extremely strong. 1000+hp strong. Sadly, I've already cracked one 3SGTE block, thus the Frankenstein motor.
_________________________
Knowledge talks, wisdom listens

1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo - 5SGTE - 2.2L
1986 Shelby GHLS - Turbo II - 2.2L #219
1993 Toyota Pickup - 22RE - 2.4L

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#4552361 - 10/23/17 07:24 PM Re: Fresh Motor, What Oil? [Re: Zack_Grill]
Zack_Grill Offline


Registered: 10/21/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Louisiana
Here's a picture of the motor for those few that might be interested.

_________________________
Knowledge talks, wisdom listens

1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo - 5SGTE - 2.2L
1986 Shelby GHLS - Turbo II - 2.2L #219
1993 Toyota Pickup - 22RE - 2.4L

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