Manual Transmissions and DI/GDI engine issues

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Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Brainstorm: If more DI and Turbo DI engines had manually transmissions would that alleviate or eliminate certain problems inherent of this type


That ship sailed a long time ago along with crank windows and manual locks. Automatics can last pretty long now. With a stick, you eventually need to drop the transmission and replace the clutch, the cost of which is about what the option on an automatic costs. Plus no one knows how to drive them because many models don't even offer it as an option.

Some say the issue is the fuel and use of top tier gas is more important with DI engines.
 
Plus I'm sure it's a lot harder driving a manual these days. It's hard enough with an automatic and trying to handle the phone, smartphone apps like navigation, music, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I drove a manual for years, but I don't miss it. It was fun at time, but other times it became a chore, especially in stop and go traffic.
 
I have a GTI with a turbo direct injected engine and a six speed manual. I cleaned the intake valves at 80K. They were nasty, but the car didn't run any better after cleaning them. It wasn't that difficult to do. I'd hate to do it on a V engine.
 
BTW, my wife still takes mine or her stick car to Brooklyn a few times a year to see her parents. #NYC traffic
 
I think the "eliminate certain problems inherent of this type" can depend on your driving style, vehicle, and possibly even how the software programming is for the manual transmission as much as anything else. I don't specifically see manual transmissions as a remedy for whatever issues that you'll get anyway if you do nothing but short trips, idle for hours, and change the oil at 12K miles vs. 5K miles.

I have a five year old DI 6 spd. manual that doesn't seem to have any issues with deposits or fuel dilution to the extent it's portrayed on here. That's not to say that a 6 spd. manual DI of another make would be the same...so I think your question is likely more about how the car is treated and maintained AND the individual car than what transmission it has....
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'm not sure what types of problems you're trying to eliminate by transmission choice.

I don't see a difference.


Maybe an Italian Tune up is easier/safer with a M/T?
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
BTW, my wife still takes mine or her stick car to Brooklyn a few times a year to see her parents. #NYC traffic


Don't you love it? Try living here on L.I. and commuting into Brooklyn. LOL Thank God I only do it on occasion. My niece does it five days a week and wants to shoot herself on a Monday morning.
 
Actually, what led me to clean them was that the butterfly's on my intake manifold would't open. A new OEM intake is surprisingly reasonable at $170 for my car. This thread is ironic. The dual mass flywheel went out on my car at 50K. I've had only two issues in 111K miles, but not issues the average DIY may wanna tackle. I will add that removing the intake and cleaning the valves was pretty easy on my car. It could be a royal pain on some vehicles.

 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Brainstorm: If more DI and Turbo DI engines had manually transmissions would that alleviate or eliminate certain problems inherent of this type


That ship sailed a long time ago along with crank windows and manual locks. Automatics can last pretty long now. With a stick, you eventually need to drop the transmission and replace the clutch, the cost of which is about what the option on an automatic costs. Plus no one knows how to drive them because many models don't even offer it as an option.

Some say the issue is the fuel and use of top tier gas is more important with DI engines.


Interesting. I guess our 180k+ mile cars (driven in traffic and around town, two people even learned on one of them) that rotted around the transmissions (with original clutches) must not have gotten the memo.

I can think of a few ATs that required multi-thousand dollar overhauls around the 150-200k mark.

Going by your logic:
AT: $1000 AT acquisition + $3000 refurbishment at 200k = $4000 lifecycle cost
MT: $1000 clutch replacement at >180k = $900 lifecycle cost

And $1000 is being pretty highly paid for a clutch job...

So if $1000=$4000, I must have learned math wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Eliminate....you can revv it much easier on a highway in 4th or 5th gear to burn all the deposits


If you're in the know. If you shift my GTI the way the dash indicates you are lugging all the time. 45mph in 6th gear, yea no thanks...
 
I would think for the majority of manual transmission driver's out there that they should expect at least a synchro change out in the 100K-175K mile range...less if they didn't pay attention to fluid changes or the right type of MT fluid along the way. If you're going 180K-200K miles on original clutch and transmission parts, you are probably in the top 5-10% of all users. Once you're inside a trans for shifting/synchro or shifting issues, that's probably another $1500-$2500 if you can't do it yourself. You will likely find other components to address besides just the synchro's.

My last auto transmission was at the 230K mile point when the engine died. It was still doing great...probably on its way to 250K-300K miles. Oddly, that was a poorly applied transmission known to give problems and typically fail in the 100K-175K mile range. Fwiw, I've had 4 manual transmission cars over the years, all muscle or performance V8's. The only failure to date was a throw out bearing...but I've also never driven one past the 55K mile point either.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'm not sure what types of problems you're trying to eliminate by transmission choice.

I don't see a difference.


With a manual transmission, we have all be taught not to lug the engine.

Some automatics, with a 4 cylinder turbo, are running at 1100 rpm in 5th gear at a low speed. I've seen it in rental vehicles. NOT ok. In the CAFE driven world of trying to wring as many mpg out of everything they've created a new maintenance problem.
 
No issues with my MT at 192k, but this is a port injected 2004 Accord. No clutch slippage, shift action remains great, only Honda MT fluid. Did a change a few weeks ago after ~50k, fluid came out golden. I will be mildly surprised if I have any transmission related issues before 300k, if I decide to keep the car.

Not sure how Honda's DI engines with manuals are fairing, but I am happy that Honda is at least on paper offering MT on the new Accord and Civic.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Brainstorm: If more DI and Turbo DI engines had manually transmissions would that alleviate or eliminate certain problems inherent of this type


That ship sailed a long time ago along with crank windows and manual locks. Automatics can last pretty long now. With a stick, you eventually need to drop the transmission and replace the clutch, the cost of which is about what the option on an automatic costs. Plus no one knows how to drive them because many models don't even offer it as an option.

Some say the issue is the fuel and use of top tier gas is more important with DI engines.


Interesting. I guess our 180k+ mile cars (driven in traffic and around town, two people even learned on one of them) that rotted around the transmissions (with original clutches) must not have gotten the memo.

I can think of a few ATs that required multi-thousand dollar overhauls around the 150-200k mark.

Going by your logic:
AT: $1000 AT acquisition + $3000 refurbishment at 200k = $4000 lifecycle cost
MT: $1000 clutch replacement at >180k = $900 lifecycle cost

And $1000 is being pretty highly paid for a clutch job...

So if $1000=$4000, I must have learned math wrong.


The cost of the transmission option is about $1000 over a manual. Not the cost of a new one. Although the last time mine went out at over 230k, it was the torque converter which would have cost about $100 for a new one. Labor to remove FWD transmissions was $700, best price I found, other places were $1000 and up. Used transmission was about $500. A rebuilt one is about $1500. Prices vary depending on the car you have. Usually when doing a clutch, it's the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing. It's not so much the parts price, it's the labor of dropping the transmission. And as others said, they usually give out around 100k or so but some who are good have gotten 200k out of the original clutch, but you can't count on being that lucky. Mine was almost burnt up when I replaced it at a little over 120k, didn't have much life left to it. I only replaced it because I was replacing the engine at the time so it was just the cost of the part as it was all apart already. I learned how to drive a stick on that car so I'm sure that didn't help.
 
In about 800K miles with 3 manual-transmission cars, I never wore out or burned out a clutch, or synchronizers. Those are non-issues if you drive properly. However, two clutches had to be replaced due to oil leaks, and one set of bearings.
 
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