First Hand Experience with LSPI Destroying Engine?

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Originally Posted By: wemay

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.


I ran 87 octane 50% of the time during the Santa Fe 2.0T's (same basic engine as the Sportage SX) first 20K miles but have since settled on 93 exclusively after seeing how fouled my spark plugs were during the first change at 40K.


on a turbocharged engine why would you run anything less than premium fuel?
what's the vehicle manufacturer's octane spec?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: amargill19
Originally Posted By: wemay

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.


I ran 87 octane 50% of the time during the Santa Fe 2.0T's (same basic engine as the Sportage SX) first 20K miles but have since settled on 93 exclusively after seeing how fouled my spark plugs were during the first change at 40K.


on a turbocharged engine why would you run anything less than premium fuel?
what's the vehicle manufacturer's octane spec?


"87 or higher"
Even the 2017 models have this in the owners manual. The vehicle never performed poorly either.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
[censored] engine design, poor driving skills and mods - this is why those engines fail. I’m 99.99% confident that oil is the least contributor to LSPI. Human stupidity - biggest


I disagree ... but agree ...

1. Disagree = "poor driving skills"
2. Partly agree = "mods"

3. POSITIVELY agree = BAD engine design (that is it in a nut shell, BAD engine design, nothing more)
4. Positively agree = oil is the least contributor to LSPI


If an engine design is so poor that engines fail more then normal compared to other companies, then its the complete failure of the engine maker to supply a product that is reliable enough to do so. Not rocket science here, feel bad for the people its happened to, for sure and keep it in mind next time you buy another vehicle, select another manufacturer who has engines that do not blow up... we can spit out excuses all day long but other manufacturers produce vehicles that operate under the same conditions and abuses every day that do not blow up.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: parshisa
[censored] engine design, poor driving skills and mods - this is why those engines fail. I’m 99.99% confident that oil is the least contributor to LSPI. Human stupidity - biggest


I disagree ... but agree ...

1. Disagree = "poor driving skills"
2. Partly agree = "mods"

3. POSITIVELY agree = BAD engine design (that is it in a nut shell, BAD engine design, nothing more)
4. Positively agree = oil is the least contributor to LSPI


If an engine design is so poor that engines fail more then normal compared to other companies, then its the complete failure of the engine maker to supply a product that is reliable enough to do so. Not rocket science here, feel bad for the people its happened to, for sure and keep it in mind next time you buy another vehicle, select another manufacturer who has engines that do not blow up... we can spit out excuses all day long but other manufacturers produce vehicles that operate under the same conditions and abuses every day that do not blow up.


Engine design could be fine, but software compromises may have not worked out.

We don't see Honda TGDI engines grenading, but we do see them with high levels of fuel dilution. Maybe a coincidence, but maybe not: Honda may be aggressively adding lots of fuel under any condition where LSPI is possible, accepting fuel dilution as the lesser of two evils. I expect GM's software update in response to engine failures brings it closer to Honda's solution.

Neither solution seems ideal. Maybe dexos1 Gen2 and GF-6 will help.
 
Originally Posted By: amargill19
Originally Posted By: wemay

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.


I ran 87 octane 50% of the time during the Santa Fe 2.0T's (same basic engine as the Sportage SX) first 20K miles but have since settled on 93 exclusively after seeing how fouled my spark plugs were during the first change at 40K.


on a turbocharged engine why would you run anything less than premium fuel?
what's the vehicle manufacturer's octane spec?


In the F-150 manual, 2016 and 2017, Ford recommends 87 octane. It does say (as it has in earlier manuals), not to use less than 87 octane, even in high altitude areas where lower octane is offered.
I live in one of these areas. My guess would be that there are plenty of turbo'd vehicles running on 85 octane.
smile.gif

I have raised ours up to about 89.66.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You know I don't hear about lspi or severe dilution in the ford ecoboost engines. They must be doing something right


You must not have read some of the earlier posts.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You know I don't hear about lspi or severe dilution in the ford ecoboost engines. They must be doing something right


See the links above. They had engines grenadining like other auto manufacturers.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You know I don't hear about lspi or severe dilution in the ford ecoboost engines. They must be doing something right


See the links above. They had engines grenadining like other auto manufacturers.


Apparently making Tequila Sunrises, too
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: amargill19
Originally Posted By: wemay

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.


I ran 87 octane 50% of the time during the Santa Fe 2.0T's (same basic engine as the Sportage SX) first 20K miles but have since settled on 93 exclusively after seeing how fouled my spark plugs were during the first change at 40K.


on a turbocharged engine why would you run anything less than premium fuel?
what's the vehicle manufacturer's octane spec?


Because octane become less important as the event duration lessens (higher revs). I run plain old regular in my 2.3T Saab, but if I want power I downshift to get into an appropriate engine speed (5,000+) and then lean on the turbo
laugh.gif


Since it has a very advanced knock sensor/pre-ignition analysis system that measures ionization across the plug gap before sending the spark signal, you can get near full power from lower octane fuel, you just need R's to do it.

Anyone who lugs a turbo motor (other than diesel) should be shot. That is the easiest way to kill a motor there is. High piston and rod loads for longer duration on thin oils. Yeah, I really want to go there
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

Anyone who lugs a turbo motor (other than diesel) should be shot. That is the easiest way to kill a motor there is. High piston and rod loads for longer duration on thin oils. Yeah, I really want to go there
frown.gif



And yet that's exactly where manufacturers took us. Trying to run what is nearly a turbo diesel motor compression wise on regular gas with transmission programming that guarantees lugging. Why regular instead of premium? Consumers don't want to pay for premium fuel.

Ed
 
“Anyone who lugs a turbo motor (other than diesel) should be shot. That is the easiest way to kill a motor there is. High piston and rod loads for longer duration on thin oils. Yeah, I really want to go there “



All soccer moms running cars with these engines better start watching out.
 
If the manufacturers give drivers turbo motors with maximum torque @ 1500 RPM they must expect them to use it. The question is did they design the bottom end to cope i.e. as strong as a diesel. Worrying about the wearing out the dual mass flywheel stops me lugging as much as anything else.
 
Everything has an "ECO" button on the dash now, and everyone's using it. RPM rarely reach past "2" on the tach of that 6000 lbs SUV employing a 1.5L single scroll turbo.
 
My new Sonata has regular , sport and econo settings for the 6 speed transmission . Although not a turbo I find the sport setting driving around town keeps the rpm's up to around 2,000 RPM's at the lowest while the other settings will drop to below 2,000 RPM's with more lugging and downshifting the result (87 octane) .
 
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